Fatigue et agressivité

Bonsoir,

Ma chienne Maya de 6 ans commence à avoir un comportement agréssif.
C'est une chienne que j'ai eu très jeune puisqu'elle n'avait pas 2 mois, c'est un chien qui a toujours eu d'étranges peurs mais rien d'inquiétant.
Elle a toujours été d'une tendresse infinie et a besoin de se coller.
Mais en décembre lors d'une soirée, maya était sur le canapé ( comme toujours ) couché près d'un ami, il était tard, elle était fatiguée et alors qu'il a voulu la caressser, elle s'est levé pour mordre.
C'était la première fois.
Aujourd'hui je surveille tous ces mouvements lorsqu'il y a du monde à la maison et je la trouve de plus en plus excédée.
Pire encore Dimanche après 3 heures de promenade dans la forêt, elle était très fatiguée et après avoir mangé, elle s'est couchée sur le canapé, et lorsque j'ai mis ma main sur elle, elle m'a  montré les dents... je lui ais alors ordonné de descendre du canapé, lui rappellant que ce qu'elle venait de faire n'était pas normale.
Je songe a aller chez le vétérinaire pour vérifier que tout va bien, mais j'ai bien peur qu'en vieillissant elle ne devienne de pire en pire.
Je considère mes chiennes comme mes filles mais  je n'ais jamais toléré l'agréssivité...
que dois je faire ?

Effectivement : d'abord vérifier si elle n'a pas un problème de santé. Des douleurs (articulaires, otites, tumeur au cerveau...) parfois difficiles à déterminer, peuvent avoir pour conséquence ce genre de comportement déroutant. D'un autre côté, je ne suis pas de super bonne humeur quand on me réveille brutalement... hum. A 6 ans, elle devrait être en pleine forme : c'est récent ces grandes fatigues ?

pas mieux vétérinaire : si y a des douleurs cela peu expliquer qu'elle te repousse aussi !

sinon pour eviter qu'elle soit dérangée pendant la visite d'amis, tu pourrais envisager une cage de transport : elle pourra s'isoler.

idem, à part de l'agressivité par anticipation de douleur ou douleur, je ne vois pas... il semblerait que dans les 2 cas le comportement de Maya ait été déclenché par contact.
Tiens nous informés

Impérativement voir le vétérinaire.

Juste à titre d'exemple, j'ai une amie dont le Corgi s'est mis à mordre les gens vers 5-6 ans, finallement il s'est avéré que ce chien avait une tumeur au cerveau, et a dû être euthanasié.

Mais sans aller jusqu'à ce cas extrême, il peut y avoir une douleur, arthrose ou autre, une sénilité précoce, ou le chien est anxieux parcequ'il voit moins bien ou entends moins bien, bref, beaucoup de possibilités.
Je me demande même si un problème de thyroïde ne pourrait pas expliquer un changement d'humeur...

je vais prendre rdv rapidement chez le vétérinaire et puis en plus il y a les rappels des vaccins du coup je ferais un bilan complet.
J'ai déjà perdu un labrador d'une tumeur et en effet sur la fin il avait tendance à tout mélanger....
J'espère juste que ma mèmère n'a pas la même chose, de toutes façons je vais surveiller et voir comment cela évolu.
Merci en tous les cas de vos commentaires

Ok n'hésites pas à nous tenir au courant

S'il te plaît Contact Zone, ne parlont pas de thyroide....

oui + 1 avec la visite véto pour vérifier qu'il n'y ait pas de soucis de thyroïde...

Il y a une veto dont je recupere des clients... qui parle que de pb de thyroïde...
J'ai eu un client avec un dogue allemand : 18 comprimes de levothyrox, en fait la chienne n'avait qu'un petit problème qui a été vite résolu !!

oui c est pas toujours le.cas mais dans le doute une consultation veto est toujours préférable je pense. on sait jamais...

Idem : d'abord voir un véto

les soucis de thyroïdes ne se diagnostiquent que par dosage, donc si un véto en met à toutes les sauces de n'importe quel problème, c'est qu'il fait mal son job... Il n’empêche qu'effectivement, l'évolution du comportement de Maya fait penser qu'une consult' véto pour commencer, c'est une bonne idée. Tiens-nous au courant

De toute façon avant de chercher un pb de comportement, il faut toujours s'assurer qu'il n'y a pas de pb organique.

oui voilà, c'est la base du diagnostique différentiel ! Éliminer les causes les plus "simples" à éliminer ^^

Il est important de faire un bilan chez le véto et/ou ostéo.
J'avais un chien sous traitement et en fonction de sa fatigue et ses douleurs son humeur était très fluctuante. Il pouvait déclencher des comportements aggressifs sur d'autres chiens.

Alors, je ne m'étais jamais posé la question de savoir s'il pouvait y avoir un lien entre comportement agressif et fatigue...

Pourquoi? Parce qu'on dit généralement qu'un "chien fatigué est un bon chien":

Citation :

"We all know that the saying, "A tired dog is a good dog" implies that a dog who is tired is less likely to get into trouble. And the old adage is true. But while most owners accept that dogs need regular exercise to stay healthy and to cut down on over-arousal, a state of canine weariness can also be used for a specific purpose: to make behavior modification go more smoothly.

Dog-centric television programs spotlight dogs with behavioral issues -- aggression toward other dogs, snapping when having nails trimmed, or separation anxiety, to name a few -- and then show the trainer working with the dog to solve the problem. What many viewers don't realize, though, is that before that final, successful, on-air session, many things have already happened. And you can bet that one of the first was taking the edge off the dog's energy levels.

A dog who is a bit worn out is less likely to be reactive. Think of it this way: When a body's got a lot of energy stored, it has to be expressed in one way or another.

It's the same for dogs and people. I live near Los Angeles and I can tell you that when someone cuts me off in traffic, I'm not a happy camper. But my reaction is a whole lot different depending if, let's say, I just came from the gym and I'm pleasantly worn out, versus having a stressful day that did not include any physical exercise. Getting back to dogs, when I adopted Bodhi, he had some pretty major on-leash reactivity issues toward other dogs. Nowadays, when we encounter another dog, he'll place himself by my side as I've taught him to do. But he still has a mild level of anxiety when passing one particular dog at the park, and will whine a bit whenever we pass him. The last few days, though, Bodhi hasn't made a peep. It's not that he's suddenly realized that black Labs aren't the embodiment of evil -- it's because by the time we encountered the dog, Bodhi was already tired from a few miles of hiking. Again, exercise took the edge off.

Dogs with aggression issues will be less reactive during behavior modification sessions if they've been well exercised first. Tiring a dog out won't solve the problem entirely, of course, but in many cases it allows for a foot in the door. Even with a problem like separation anxiety, starting with a dog who is pleasantly worn out can help. Back when Sierra and I were working through her separation issues, if I took her out hiking before I left the house, she was markedly calmer than if she hadn't been exercised. When I included this tip in my book Don't Leave Me! Step by Step Help for Your Dog's Separation Anxiety, more than a few people contacted me to say that they hadn't thought of exercising their dogs before they left the house, and that it helped immensely.

This might all sound like common sense, but I know very few owners who actually think this way. It's just not something we're taught. Even if a dog doesn't have a serious behavior issue, taking the offense on the exercise front can help. For example, before having people over for an evening visit, get your dog out for a nice, long session of walking, hiking, playing with other dogs, or doing whatever you both enjoy. Just don't amp your dog up with an activity like ball chasing, and then immediately put him in a situation where he might become reactive. Aerobic activity elevates adrenaline levels, and floods the bloodstream with other chemicals that can take a while to return to normal levels. As an experiment, try exercising your dog before visiting the vet or groomer, before having visitors over, or before a session of working on behavior issues. You might be surprised at the difference it makes.

Nicole Wilde is a canine behavior specialist and author.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/nicole-wilde/a-tired-dog-is-a-cooperative-dog_b_4380003.html

Pourtant, même si nous sommes bien d'accord qu'un chien fatigué a ses avantages, il doit quand même bien y avoir des inconvénients!

Citation :

“Self-Control Depletion” & Dogs

February 15, 2013

This post could be sub-titled “No, a tired dog is not always a good dog,” or alternatively, “Why We Choose Pasta with Cream Sauce Over Vegetable Soup on a Difficult Day.” Okay, maybe it’s just me that makes poor decisions about lunch when I’m exhausted, but this research suggests that I, along my dogs, are not alone.

A study by Miller et. al. followed up on earlier work about the effect of self-control on risk taking and decision making. (“Too dog tired to avoid danger: Self-control depletion in canines increases behavioral approach toward an aggressive threat.” Psych Bull Rev 2012 19:535-540.) Here’s the background to this study: Multiple studies on humans have found that we appear to have a limited amount of self-control (A shock to us all, no doubt). It is as though we have a bank account of energy devoted to self-control and once it is depleted, we are unable to spend any more. For example, people told to control their impulse to eat fresh cookies (versus radishes) gave up faster on attempting to solve a difficult puzzle. Subjects who were asked to spend some of their “self control savings” were more likely to take risks and put themselves in dangerous situations more than those who had not “used up” some of their self-control energy.

This tendency is not just limited to a particular type of task. Rather, it is “domain general,” meaning self control on one task effects behavior in a variety of other types of tasks. Thus, as in the example above, the energy exerted to not eat cookies affects the energy available to solve a puzzle, even though one task is related to food and another to problem solving.

Neither is this tendency limited to people. Miller et. al. found in 2010 that dogs asked to control physical movements also gave up sooner when later asked to solve a puzzle task than dogs who had not. For this study, they asked if dogs were more likely, as are humans, to take more risks after a session of “self-control depletion.”

I’ll quickly summarize the methods and results here, and then add a discussion about what I think are the practical implications. Ten dogs were asked to either maintain a sit/stay while an “electronic hamster” buzzed around the room, or to be caged with no need for self-control. Each dog was its own control, meaning that each dog experienced both conditions, an excellent decision here given the small sample size and the question being asked. Which condition happened first was randomly balanced to eliminate order effects. After a 10 minute period of either being on a Sit/Stay or in a crate, the dogs were escorted out of the room briefly, while a highly reactive dog was put into a cage at the back of the room. The subject dog was brought back in and the researchers scored how close the subject dogs got to an unfamiliar dog barking and growling at the subject dogs. (The authors managed safety well, by putting a pen around the crate in which the barking and growling dog was kept, but I’ll comment about the effect on the “stimulus” dog in a minute.)

As expected, the data show a significant difference in time spent close to the aggressive dog depending on the dog’s experience just before. After the dogs maintained a Sit/Stay, (if they broke their owner returned to the room and had them Sit/Stay again), they spent more time close to the threatening dog than when they had been left in a crate for the same amount of time. The conclusion is that, like people, dogs take more risks and have less impulse control if they have depleted their stores of self control. This is the kind of result that confirms my experience and world view: that dogs, like people, have a limited amount of energy to spend on self control at any given time. I’ve seen what I think are the consequences of this over and over with my client load: Dogs, for example, who were “angels” all day long at the picnic and then finally bit someone after 5 hours of not stealing hot dogs off the table at the park. I suspect it also has a profound effect of dogs on leashes, because even though the leash is a constraint, the dog still has to exert a lot of self control to not explore the environment as he or she chooses.

However, (and there is always a “however” in science!), there is one aspect of the methodology that might make the results a bit less clear than one would hope. In the “Sit/Stay” condition, a mechanical toy was released that buzzed around the room, thus forcing the dogs to exert a great deal of self-control to maintain their stays. All good. But in the “Crated” condition, the mechanical toy did not move around the room. The authors stated that their pilot studies found that if the toy was turned on, it caused some of the crated dogs to “whine, circle and paw.” I’m unclear as to why this would be a problem: surely dogs allowed to whine, circle or paw would be dogs NOT using energy on self control. As is, one could argue that the study was comparing levels of arousal as much as energy exerted on self control. I’ll email the authors about this and let you know what I find.) [Note added after Dr. Miller herself responded in the comment section: You are best off reading her comments yourself, which I found extremely interesting, but after reading her response I am more comfortable with the conditions as designed in the experiment. Bottom line is that in one condition dogs had to exhibit a great deal of self control, and in the other condition, they did not. That was the basis of the study, and I found her explanation compelling. Again, read the comments for an extremely interesting discussion about all this if you are especially interested in the topic.]

What do you think? I’d love to hear your thought not just about the study and the two conditions, but whether its conclusions fit your experience. Although I question some aspects of the methodology, my experience suggests to me that “self-control depletion” is an important factor in behavior. That is true as much for our dogs as it is for us: Haven’t you found yourself, as a dog owner or trainer, making poor choices after depleting your bank account of self control? We tend to think of it as just “being tired,” but I think recognizing that “tired” has many nuances might be extremely helpful. In addition, “tired” can mean so many things: Well exercised dogs are very often better behaved dogs, but dogs over tired either physically or emotionally are not, right? I look forward to your thoughts and experiences, and I’ll be thinking all weekend about how this perspective might affect the individuals at both ends of the leash. (I should also mention, briefly, that I wish the study could have been done without subjecting the stimulus dog to being confined in a crate while clearly  uncomfortable around other dogs. But I do understand their desire to create a realistic context of “risk” for the dogs, I just wish it could have been a different one.)

MEANWHILE, back on the farm: Argh! This is a tough time for people who like to be outdoors. The temperature isn’t too bad (was about 12 when I got up, not too bad for this time of year, and it’s been over freezing during the day for much of the week), but it is extremely difficult to walk anywhere. Either it is ice suitable for a skating rink, or snow that was half-melted by rain and then re-frozen into a hard, frosting-like surface that is hell on your feet and exhausting to walk in.  Willie and I both have a serious case of cabin fever, so I am going back to seeing if he can learn words as nouns instead of objects in the evening hours. Tootsie is happy to cuddle on the couch, and the sheep and the cats seem to be doing just fine.

The good news is that there is a lot to look forward to. Not too long from now students from the Small Ruminant Club at the UW Vet School are coming out to learn how to do ultrasound pregnancy checks on sheep. My flock “volunteered,” they just don’t know it yet. We’ve done this several years in a row, and after the work in the barn we come into the farmhouse for chili, salad, bread and pie, and have a great time sharing our love of animals and interest in their health. Then I leave on the 28th for San Diego for the Interdisciplinary Forum on Applied Animal Behavior, where I will glory in flowers and greenery, 2 days of intellectual stimulation and, if things go as usual, laughing so hard my ribs begin to hurt. And this Sunday we’re going to see West Side Story, so cabin fever is beginning to be relieved.

More good news is that, after endless days of clouds, rain, and sleet, the sun has come out and it is such a lovely thing to see. It felt like a dear friend coming home that I had missed. Here’s one of the ewes, Solo, highlighted by the morning sun when I went out to check on the flock earlier today. I always feel a bit sorry for her, she came with 2 others from another farm and after they left was clearly the “odd girl out” in the flock. But gradually she is being assimilated, and I hope she feels more at home here. I’m curious to see how her lambs are (due April lst, there’s another thing to look forward to!)
- See more at: http://www.patriciamcconnell.com/theotherendoftheleash/self-control-depletion-dogs#sthash.lOuLmeIb.dpuf

http://www.patriciamcconnell.com/theotherendoftheleash/self-control-depletion-dogs

A lire aussi:

Citation :

Tired Dogs Make Dumb Choices
Caen Elegans / 2012/04/21

Many, many years ago at an obedience event, my Belgian got into a row with a Bouvier.

From the moment we reached the site this Bouvier took an immediate dislike to my dog.  Because the venue was pretty small, there was no avoiding this dog, but we kept our  distance as much as possible. It wasn’t enough; this dog went from staring to rigid staring, to snarling, growling and barking.

To avoid any problems I had my dog with his back toward the dog in the “front” position for an extended period, giving him a break only when the other dog turned his back, which wasn’t often. The judge had noticed the Bouvier and placed one dog between us during the long stays. The sit went without a problem and the down was perfect, until I gave him the cue to let him know we were finished.

My mistake.

As I bent down to get the leash, he calmly walked to the aggressive dog and mounted him!!  The Bouv initially seemed too stunned to react. The owner reacted like it was happening to her; she freaked. The Bouv took some courage out of this and a scuffle ensued but no one was hurt.

Did I deplete my dog’s self control with the prolonged front and long stays, creating what I was hoping to avoid? The recently published study titled, “Too dog tired to avoid danger: Self-control depletion in canines increases behavioral approach toward an aggressive threat” looked into this very issue.

Background

Self control often means trading the instant gratification of an immediate objective for a secondary long term desire. It’s a way of managing competing self interests (eat cake/lose weight), a coping mechanism with adaptive advantages. But self control doesn’t come free,

Studies have demonstrated that self control depletion results in impaired inhibition and results in people making less than optimal choices, everything from gambling more and giving up quicker when solving an intractable problem. Like in every part of life there is a trade-off; achieving  temporary self control means losing some of  it later on.

Baumeister gives 4 key ingredients for self regulation; a) standards, b) self monitoring, a c) “willpower” and d) motivation

a)      A standard requires a clear picture of what you are supposed to be doing: drive at 60mph/100kph, run 30 minutes every day, heel, sit, etc. No having a well defined standard is often seen in the obedience ring; often it is very obvious that dog just doesn’t understand the exercise.

b)      Self-monitoring requires the subject to compare the standard being kept in mind to what it is actually doing and if necessary to make adjustments. Without self-monitoring a dog would not be able to change pace or turn during a heeling exercise.

c)      Willpower, or self-regulatory strength is a limited resource and is depleted from self-regulation exercises.

d)     Without motivation nothing happens.

The Findings

In this study compared the approach to an aggressive dog in two groups of dogs. The self-control group had to sit for 10 minutes with an electronic hamster distraction – depleting it’s resources – before given access to the aggressive dog. The other group was in a cage for the same amount of time.



The depleted (self control) group was less able to inhibit it’s approach to an aggressive dog than the control group, showing the same kind of risky behavior observed in depleted humans.

They write:

    When dogs were depleted, as compared with when they were not, they were less able to inhibit their predisposed approach behaviors. As a result, dogs approached an aggressive dog more when depleted than when nondepleted.

The main and related studies suggest a few things to me specially for reactive dogs:

1)      Keeping sessions short so as not to deplete the animal’s resources.  Short training sessions is the normal recommendation for pups but it seems to be less of a concern for adult dogs.  Short sessions might be of special importance when working dogs with limited self control who tend to display risky behaviors.

2)      The use of food rewards high in glucose as they’ve been shown to mitigate the risky behavior associated with depletion.

Having an interest in evolutionary biology, I found the last paragraph particularly interesting, specially for those people who insist in yelling “treat a dog like a dog” as they yank and crank their helpless animal.

   The commonality between human and nonhuman animals is great, and the present research is further evidence that human self-control has phylogenetic roots. It is also further evidence that a phenomenon (i.e., depletion) once believed to be uniquely human can be modeled with dogs

Something to think about when deciding what kind of relationship you want to have with your dog. The claim of ‘it’s only a dog’ or ‘treat a dog like a dog’ (whatever that means) just doesn’t fly.

We are more alike than unlike.

References

Baumeister, R. F., Vohs, K. D.  (2007) Self-Regulation, Ego Depletion, and Motivation. Social and Personality Psychology Compass 1 (2007): 10.1111

Miller. H.C., DeWall, C. N., Pattison, K. F., Molet. M., & Zentall, T. R.   (2012) Too dog tired to avoid danger: Self-control depletion in canines increases behavioral approach toward an aggressive threat.  Psychon Bull Rev 2012 Mar 30.

Miller, H. C., Pattison, K. F., DeWall, C. N., Rayburn-Reeves, R., & Zentall, T. R. (2010). Self-control without a self? Common self-control processes in humans and dogs. Psychological Science, 21, 534–538.

Schmeichel, B. J., Harmon-Jones, C., & Harmon-Jones, E. (2010). Exercising self-control increases approach motivation. Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, 99, 162–172.

https://dogbehaviorscience.wordpress.com/2012/04/21/tired-dogs-make-dumb-choices/

Nous avions déjà discuté du fait que l'immobilité (imposée par de l'obéissance notamment) avait des répercussions sur les chiens réactifs/agressifs:

Derby a écrit:

Car quand on bloque le chien avec une position ou un statique devant la source anxiogène ( le truc qui fait peur) et bien on demande au chien de l'auto-contrôle , et cet auto-controle fait baisser le taux de glucose : ce qui a pour conséquence de déshiniber le chien qui peut avoir un cpt plus agressif

Je préfère laisser ou mettre le chien en mouvement et travailler sa distance / zone de confort, et travailler à la réduire

Et donc, qu'il était important de maintenir du mouvement:

https://educationcanine.forumactif.com/t12273-etre-en-mouvement-une-necessite-du-travail-a-la-longe

Mais bizarrement, je n'ai rien trouvé sur le chien fatigué et les comportements agressifs... C'est une remarque d'Iroise qui m'a fait pensé à cela... Pourquoi n'envisage-t-on pas que, dans certaines conditions, un chien qui n'est pas agressif/réactif puisse, sous l'effet de la fatigue (physique ou mentale), exprimer des comportements agressifs?

Pourtant, en y réfléchissant, ce n'est pas illogique! Et les humains connaissent bien cela d'ailleurs! Dès qu'on est fatigués, on est moins tolérants, on perd plus vite patience, on a envie de rester dans sa bulle et de ne pas avoir autant d'interactions que d'habitude, etc... Chez l'enfant, ce n'est pas différent et certains deviennent bougons voire pénibles!

Enfin, bref, c'était juste une réflexion comme ça qui colle bien avec ce post!

Pas le courage de traduire tout ce long texte ^^

Mais ce sujet m'interpelle et je pense effectivement qu'il y a un lien. C'est comme les humains, quand je suis fatiguée, je vais être un peu plus"ronchonne" et désagréable.

J'ai eu un FA un petit chien qui avait des soucis de comportements, il grognait, mordait à sang et c'était très souvent le soir quand il était fatigué. Ca me faisait un peu penser aux enfants qui sont désagréables quand ils commencent à fatiguer.

Je crois que ça joue pour certains chiens, selon le caractère peut être et puis le passif, etc.
Ma houma est clairement moins tolérante quand elle est fatiguée, un peu comme moi qui devient irritable quand je suis crevée. Mais par comparaison, smoke va rester cool mais plus excitable.
La résistance/réaction a la fatigue me semble donc différente selon les chiens.

Pour houma, quand je suis chez mes parents avec la troupe, j'ai commencé cet été a lui faire faire des siestes et je pense que ça aide bien a lui garder une humeur correcte ;-)
Je crois avoir lu que vazaha fait ça avec haku aussi.

Citation :

J'ai eu un FA un petit chien qui avait des soucis de comportements, il grognait, mordait à sang et c'était très souvent le soir quand il était fatigué. Ca me faisait un peu penser aux enfants qui sont désagréables quand ils commencent à fatiguer.

Oui et du coup, pour des chiens réactifs comme le mien, cela signifie qu'il faut arriver à doser le niveau de fatigue au risque de voir le comportement agressif apparaître ou s'amplifier alors qu'on pensait qu'en fatiguant le chien, il serait plus relax!

Pas facile tout ça...

Totalement d'accord power, il y a une gestion de la fatigue a faire, et parfois même si on sait tout ça Ben on anticipe pas tout lol, alors qu'ensuite en analysant la séquence ça paraît tellement logique.

Iroise a écrit:

Je crois que ça joue pour certains chiens, selon le caractère peut être et puis le passif, etc.
Ma houma est clairement moins tolérante quand elle est fatiguée, un peu comme moi qui devient irritable quand je suis crevée. Mais par comparaison, smoke va rester cool mais plus excitable.
La résistance/réaction a la fatigue me semble donc différente selon les chiens.

Et bien tu vois, ça a été une révélation pour moi!

Iroise a écrit:

Pour houma, quand je suis chez mes parents avec la troupe, j'ai commencé cet été a lui faire faire des siestes et je pense que ça aide bien a lui garder une humeur correcte ;-)
Je crois avoir lu que vazaha fait ça avec haku aussi.

OK, bonne idée!

Même s'il y en a bien qui penseront que l'on fait de l'anthropomorphisme.

C'est quand même incroyable et signifie qu'il faut apporter de la nuance à l'adage qui dit qu'un bon chien est un chien fatigué!

Comme dit, cela me semble tout à fait évident maintenant mais sur le coup...

J aurai aussi tendance à penser qu'il peut y avoir un lien entre les deux ... Je le vois aussi avec Frisbee. Quand on a du monde ou que nous sommes chez des amis, ce qui est bien, c'est qu il se gère plutôt bien : il va de lui même se coucher là où nous dormons, il s'isole... Et là ça veut dire qu'il en a assez

Le truc marrant c'est que certains chiens se gèrent en effet très bien : gats sait très bien s'isoler dans ma chambre a merignac quand elle a besoin de pioncer en journée.
Houma commence a demander a y aller mais c'est encore assez peu courant.

Avec houma, aucun mérite a l'avoir vu, faut dire que la différence de comportement est flagrante (dans certains contextes aussi, c'est plus compliqué que ça).

Iroise a écrit:

Totalement d'accord power, il y a une gestion de la fatigue a faire, et parfois même si on sait tout ça Ben on anticipe pas tout lol, alors qu'ensuite en analysant la séquence ça paraît tellement logique.

Ah ben ça, pas anticiper, je connais!

Mais vraiment, tu vois, si quelqu'un m'avait demandé conseil concernant le comportement de son chien, je n'aurais pas songé à lui conseiller de faire bien attention au niveau de fatigue de son chien.