Aboiements/hurlement: absences, solitude/séparation

Le post initial date bien d'hier ?

Bonsoir,

Désolé de ne pas avoir répondu, j'étais en vacances.
Après deux semaines ou je l'ai laissé 5 minutes, puis 10... jusqu'à 30 minutes, aucunes améliorations. Il reste toujours collé derrière la porte et aboie et pleure.
J'ai rdv jeudi avec une spécialiste en fleurs de Bach on verra si ca fonctionne.

Il est important de rentrer avant qu'il ne réagisse lors de l'apprentissage du tu attends je reviens

Je suis rentré de vacances. Qu'entends-tu par "il est important de rentrer avant qu'il ne réagisse à l'apprentissage" ?

Lire ici : https://educationcanine.forumactif.com/t13334-tu-attends-je-reviens?highlight=tu+attends

AH oui j'ai déjà lu. Mais lorsque nous sommes dans l'appartement il ne nous suit pas forcément partout. Quand on se douche ou qu'on va au wc, nous fermons la porte et il n'aboie pas. En ce moment-même je suis dans le bureau et lui il joue au salon. Donc pour appliquer cette méthode je devrais le faire en sortant de mon appartement, est-ce faisable ?

commence sans le faire dehors, met le mot sur cette action de séparer et se retrouver dans les situations qui sont déjà cool pour lui

en comparaison voiture : passe ton code

pour au fil des leçons pouvoir aller partout et notamment l'autoroute ! (ou en plein paris)

Ok, merci beaucoup pour les conseils, je vais tenter.

Des livres:

https://educationcanine.forumactif.com/t17779-i-ll-be-home-soon#415601

https://educationcanine.forumactif.com/t17780-treating-separation-anxiety-in-dogs#415603

https://educationcanine.forumactif.com/t17781-don-t-leave-me-step-by-step-help-for-your-dog-s-separation-anxiety#415606

The Calming Yo-Yo exercise...

http://www.clickertraining.com/node/1556

Citation :

Managing Your Dog's Separation Anxiety
By Aidan Bindoff on 07/01/2010

Domesticated dogs naturally prefer the companionship of their humans. It's one thing to have your dog follow you around the house amiably, however; it's quite another to learn that your dog howls relentlessly when you're at work or defecates in the house to show his displeasure at your absence. When your dog's behavior in your absence seems extreme, he might be experiencing separation anxiety.

Canine separation anxiety is a set of behaviors that occurs in some dogs when their owners or "family" are not present. These behaviors include "destruction, vocalization, elimination of urine and/or stool, anorexia, drooling, attempts at escape, and/or behavioral depression," according to Debra F. Horwitz, DVM, as stated in her article "Separation Anxiety in Dogs" (Atlantic Coast Veterinary Conference, 2001).

Symptoms and treatment

It is important to realize that the symptoms listed above are not always indicative of canine separation anxiety. They can be indications of boredom, lack of exercise, or poor or incomplete house-training. Medical conditions can cause many of these symptoms as well. If your dog exhibits any of these symptoms in your absence, it is important to talk to a veterinary behaviorist for an accurate diagnosis and a treatment plan. In this author's opinion, separation anxiety may be the second most over-diagnosed canine behavior problem after dominance. However, it is important to address any and all individual problem behaviors. A competent veterinary behaviorist should be able to offer effective behavior modification techniques for any of the symptoms, whether or not they result from canine separation anxiety.

When your dog's behavior in your absence seems extreme, he might be experiencing separation anxiety.

Once an accurate diagnosis has been made, treatment is usually a combination of medication and behavior modification, depending on the severity of the condition. Medication can play an important role in the treatment of genuine canine separation anxiety. It can provide a window of opportunity to undertake behavior modification techniques in real-life settings, something that can be difficult to implement without pharmacological assistance. Sometimes real life raises criteria too fast for effective behavior modification; medication can provide a necessary advantage and relieve a beloved pet of discomfort and anxiety.

Internet searches provide a vast amount of information about the treatment of canine separation anxiety. Keep in mind that a veterinary behaviorist is the best source for treatment protocols. This article's single useful exercise seeks only to give an understanding of the behavioral principles at play in canine separation anxiety.

The Calming Yo-Yo exercise

The Calming Yo-Yo exercise is designed to teach a dog how to remain calm during short, controlled absences from its owner. This exercise is useful for dogs who suffer from very mild to severe cases of separation anxiety, or for dogs who just don't like their owners to leave the room. A professional diagnosis of canine separation anxiety is not necessary to begin this exercise, but if your dog has a strong reaction to this exercise, it would be wise to consult a competent veterinary behaviorist soon.
The Calming Yo-Yo exercise is designed to teach a dog how to remain calm during short, controlled absences from its owner.

The principles of the Calming Yo-Yo exercise are the same as for most realistic, sensible treatment protocols, which makes it easier to understand how those protocols work. The insights gained from this simple exercise make it less likely that serious errors will be made if or when more complex behavior modification procedures are attempted.

What the exercise does is demonstrate to the dog that being calm is the quickest, most reliable way to bring an owner back. Being anxious, whining, barking, stamping paws, panting excessively, or straining at the restraint won't achieve the dog's goal.

Like any good behavior modification program, this exercise starts off simply and works up, ensuring success all the way. It is important to make it easy for the dog to succeed at every step. Without success, there is nothing to reinforce; without reinforcement there is less of the desired behavior.

Getting ready

To start, find some way to restrain the dog so that he can't follow you. This can be a tether, a crate, a baby gate, or even a helper. It doesn't hurt to repeat the exercise with each of these restraints if they are available. Mix it up whenever possible, as it will be more practical to use one device over another in various situations. To simplify the explanation of the exercise, however, we'll assume that a tether is being used.

Make sure that your dog is in a harness or a wide, flat buckle collar fixed to a hook, post, or door handle-leaving just enough length of leash for your dog to sit, lie down, or turn around. As for you, start by standing immediately in front of your dog. Be quiet and calm. Don't give any cues—saying "Wait there, I'll be back in a minute" or "Stay," for example—as we want the ready behavior to be a default and not something that needs to be cued.

If your dog is excited, wait for him to calm down before beginning. Allow plenty of time to complete this exercise; you can't bail out partway through if your dog is displaying anxious behaviors.

Raising criteria with the 300 Peck Method

Take one step away from your dog. If he is calm, click your clicker and return to your dog.
Take two steps away from your dog. If he is calm, click and return.
Take three steps away from your dog. If he is calm, click and return. If he is not calm, wait quietly until he calms down, then click and return. Then start again, taking just one step away from your dog.

The method used here to raise criteria is known as the "300 Peck" method. The 300 Peck Method directs you to raise criteria by one step each trial until failure, and then reset the criteria to one and start again. This method is an easy way to raise criteria while achieving a very high rate of success.
The 300 Peck Method is an easy way to raise criteria while achieving a very high rate of success.

With these small successes, you'll soon run out of room and will have to go through a doorway and out of sight. In keeping with a "set your dog up for success" policy, don't leave the room just yet. Take the dog to another room and repeat the procedure—from the start—in that room. Do this in several rooms in the house and then perform the exercise outdoors.

Moving out of sight is a big leap and would raise the criteria too fast if plenty of trials in different locations were not attempted first. In many outdoor locations you can take dozens of steps away from your dog before you move out of sight. When you can take 20-25 steps away from your dog while he remains calm, go back to the first room and try an "out-of-sight" trial where you move into another room.

When it's time for out-of-sight trials, start counting seconds out of sight instead of steps away. The exercise now uses a duration criteria rather than a distance criteria. Ultimately, the aim is to be able to stay away from your dog for long periods of time without your dog displaying any anxiety. This exercise is the first step toward that goal, taken under controlled and achievable circumstances.

Note that a baby monitor can be helpful in the advanced stages of the Calming Yo-Yo exercise, so that when you are out of normal hearing range you can still hear your dog.

What if my dog fails?

If your dog does not remain calm at any of the steps outlined above, all you can do is wait for calm, then click and return. Reset your criteria to one step away and try again.

Anxious behavior is just behavior. It looks and sounds terrible, but it can't go on forever. If your dog (or anyone nearby) is not coming to any physical harm, then wait it out. If you really can't wait it out, at least wait for a reduction in the anxious behavior before you return to your dog. If the anxious behavior is extreme, seek professional help sooner rather than later!

Where are the treats?

In the Calming Yo-Yo, exercise you are not asked to give your dog a treat, or play a game, or offer any of the usual rewards used in clicker training. If your dog has canine separation anxiety, all he wants is for you to be near him. Any other reward is unnecessary and can even fail to communicate the intention of the exercise.

If your dog has canine separation anxiety, all he wants is for you to be near him.

For a dog suffering separation anxiety, your return is an effective reinforcer. You will get confirmation of the reinforcer with the effectiveness of the exercise. Ideally, calm behavior will increase and you will be able to move further away, or remain out of sight for longer. If this progression does not occur, discontinue the exercise until you have sought professional help.

The Calming Yo-Yo exercise attempts to increase the threshold of how far away you can go from your dog or how long you can stay away from him before he becomes anxious for your return. Show him that you always come back if he remains calm. Tossing a treat confuses the issue—and the dog. If you toss a treat, you are not showing your dog that you always come back when he is calm, but instead you show that he earns a treat. This may or may not be a good reinforcer for a dog suffering from separation anxiety.

Watch and wait

Do we know if the Calming Yo-Yo exercise produces changes in internal emotional states? No, we can only observe the dog and the results. When you think about it, it's observed behavior that leads us to believe that a dog suffers from separation anxiety in the first place. Otherwise, we wouldn't have any cause for concern!

The Calming Yo-Yo is a basic and fundamental exercise for the treatment of separation anxiety. Keep in mind that in any separation anxiety case there can be aspects of the problem that require treatment and guidance from a competent and qualified professional in order to achieve the best outcome.

Citation :

Separation Anxiety: Standing On One’s Own Four Paws

By Malena DeMartini Price

The voicemail message was a funny one. It said, in a charming Italian lilt, “I need help getting my dog off the feet.” Ninety nine percent of my caseload is made up of separation anxiety cases, so I had some inkling right away what the woman calling me meant by that. When we met she confirmed my theory; her dog had separation anxiety. She had known this for some time, but working from home and living in a dog-friendly city like San Francisco, the problem had been manageable until now. At this point, though, Bella (short for Bellisima) was always underfoot. The rough-coated terrier mix’s need to shadow her owner, so typical in separation anxiety dogs, had developed into an obsession. In the kitchen, the bathroom, the home office; wherever the owner was, there was Bella, glued to her legs. The situation was becoming intolerable—and often dangerous.

Most trainers are acutely focused on getting the owner out the front door right away. Isn’t that the grand prize with separation anxiety dogs? Actually, no. And that misunderstanding is why so many separation anxiety treatment plans fail. The real grand prize is a dog that feels okay about being alone for a length of time. This means that the first step in successfully treating separation anxiety is to get the dog “off the feet,” for the simple reason that a dog that lacks the confidence to be half a room away from her owner can’t yet cope with real absences. Yes, you may be able to distract the dog with food for a time, but in many cases you will then hit a wall. The treatment will plateau, perhaps leading you to the flawed conclusion that this particular dog is unable to progress any further than, say, 20-minute absences. This is true of far fewer dogs than you may think.

So how do you build this confidence in the dog? First, you go slowly. As slowly as it takes, which can be crazy-making unless you embrace it as inevitable in a certain percentage of your cases. Second, you use a few simple behaviors you teach all the time. I call it the “not-following routine” (it used to be ‘unfollow,’ but Twitter ruined that for me) and it’s nothing more complicated than Go To Bed and Stay. Together these two cues form the beginning of an absence. Walking away from the owner to go lie on a bed is a mini-absence from the dog’s perspective. The same can be said for a Stay, because the owner walks away. By using these two cues and rewarding them regularly, you can quickly create a dog that is excited to not follow.

In a severe case like Bella’s, we had to start at square one. We put the dog bed a few inches from the owner’s (Italian leather-shod) feet and used a lure to get Bella to lie on it. Soon Bella got the hang of the game and happily plopped down on her bed whenever we said the word ‘cuccia’ (‘dog bed’ in Italian). This is where you have to start with any separation anxiety dog; positive association, repetition, and reward. The dog needs to come to the conclusion independently that being on her bed is just as rewarding as lying across her owner’s feet. Once you have achieved this, you can begin to move the bed a few inches farther away, then another couple, and so forth.

Teaching Stay to a separation anxiety dog is a similar process. More than anything, it’s essential to remember to teach the criteria of distance and duration separately. With Bella, teaching duration was a cakewalk. As long as her owner stayed in one place nearby, even long durations presented no difficulty. Distance was another story—and you may find this to be the case with many separation anxiety dogs. Here, progress was painfully slow. We solved it by using subtle body language to split up criteria to minute levels. The owner waggling a foot backward a few inches and then putting it back in place was enough of an implication for Bella that her owner was moving away, but that’s where we needed to start to avoid triggering anxiety, so that’s where we started. In time, Bella’s owner could take half a step back and twist her upper body to one side. Each subtle body movement was repeated and rewarded many times until it all added up to a full step backward. Eventually that step backward came to incorporate a turned body, then a step away, and now we were on the road to creating distance.

Most separation anxiety dogs hit a new plateau when you begin to incorporate out-of-view Stays. Again, the answer is to split the criteria into tiny steps. If you have to start with one tenth of the owner’s body on the other side of the threshold to keep the dog below threshold, so be it. It’s worth it to succeed. But all dogs (even Bella) can learn to stay happily on their bed as their first baby version of an absence. As you work to build distance and duration, the sheer repetition of asking the dog to Stay establishes the not-following routine. In the early stages, the owner just asks for a Stay while walking across the room and back, but eventually she can ask for a Stay while she goes to cook a batch of pasta.

(By the way, never use Stay as a cue for asking the dog to be home alone. That will typically involve a confinement area, either behind a baby gate or in a crate. The Stay and Go To Bed exercises teach the dog to handle pre-absence absences and that is what sets her up for success.)

You have no doubt taught Go To Bed and Stay many times. But training these cues in a separation anxiety case is nothing like training them in an obedience case. A Stay, for example, is so easy to build—it can typically be done in a handful of sessions—and a placement exercise like Go To Bed is even simpler. A separation anxiety case is different because you are not just teaching a behavior, you are teaching a small measure of emotional autonomy. A dog that lives in near-constant panic about being left alone lacks the skill to self-soothe. By allowing her to discover that being separated from her owner, even if only by inches and for a few seconds to begin with, can be rewarding, you are paving the way for successful treatment.

Now, if two simple cues like Go To Bed and Stay require such an inchmeal approach, imagine how slowly you may need to proceed with front-door exercises? The good news is, separation anxiety treatment does not always have to happen in atomic increments—at least not at all stages. In some dogs shadowing is minimal and can be dispelled with quickly. Others fly through out-of-view absences or front-door exercises. But most plateau at some point and when that happens, the key is to slow down enough not to trigger anxiety in the dog.

Which brings us to the subject of timelines. Each and every client I work with asks how long it will take before her dog can be left alone successfully. The answer is simple yet hard to hear: “Until your dog can relax while she’s alone which is achieved by staying under her anxiety threshold.” No answer at all, I know. But the only honest one.

Are you the kind of trainer who can hold steady through such a process and not push too far too fast? Can you keep your clients motivated to maintain what at times seems like a snail’s pace? Only you can answer that, but if you can, you will find that separation anxiety dogs are profoundly treatable. Start slow and you will see a much higher number of cases resolved. Approach it as a puzzle. Write criteria that teach the owner to read the dog’s body language. Experiment with how small you can make the steps when necessary. Most importantly, tell your clients up front that patience is crucial and that the only way to reach the goal is to focus on the process. Compare it to marathon training; if you hurry at the outset you risk injury and may have to drop out of the race altogether. But the wonderful news with separation anxiety is that once those initial grueling steps are behind you, progress is much quicker.

I hope more trainers will embrace these slow-but-oh-so-necessary confidence-building techniques. There are so many Bellas that need help and too few trainers willing to take on separation anxiety cases. As for my client’s Bella, she is no longer “on the feet.” A poster girl for how setting minute criteria can resolve a long-standing and seemingly incurable problem, she now chooses to be on her bed every day without being asked—and she can be alone for several hours at a time, more than the owner had ever hoped for and, given her lifestyle, as much as she’ll ever need to ask of Bella.

Malena DeMartini-Price, CTC, is a San Francisco SPCA Academy graduate with over 10 years’ experience and several hundred successful separation anxiety cases under her belt. Her use of simple technologies and a different approach to client support to treat separation anxiety is fast garnering attention. Her articles have recently been featured in the APDT’s Chronicle of The Dog.

You can see Malena DeMartini-Price and dog*tec’s Veronica Boutelle and Gina Phairas present about successful approaches to separation anxiety at dog*tec’s two-day Fixing The Unfixable seminar for dog trainers.

dogtec.org/articles/separation-anxiety-standing-on-ones-own-four-paws

Citation :

The Real Cost of Separation Anxiety
October 17, 2013
Emily Fisher

Separation Anxiety is a fairly common behaviour problem that can affect any breed of dog. At its worst it is a full fledged panic disorder causing self-injury and extreme destruction of property. On the milder end, separation anxiety is distressing for the dog and can result in disruption for neighbours due to barking. It’s not uncommon to see this crop up in older puppies who never received proper “alone training” as a youngster, as well as shelter/rescue dogs who have had their lives shuffled through rehoming.

I have a foster dog at the moment, a houndX named Lucy. She’s a clever, active dog, but is not without her share of issues – one of which is separation anxiety. It took well over a month for the anxiety to rear its ugly head after she was moved from her previous home. Fortunately with training, things began to settle… until moving house meant that we were back at square -10. (does that exist? It should.)

With proper training and management, separation anxiety cases tend to have good outcomes. Training consists of structured, incremental “alone time”, often in conjunction with desensitization and classical counter conditioning of “departure cues.” Departure cues are any environmental changes that indicate to the dog that they will be left alone and therefore trigger anxiety – picking up your keys, turning on the car, taking a shower, or in more extreme cases even the alarm clock beeping in the morning.

Lucy isn’t triggered by departure cues, so the focus of her training has been exclusively on alone time. I have found the Manners Minder, a remote treat dispenser, to be indispensable for this training. It will automatically dispense the treats on a variable time interval of my choice and other than the occasional jam it has hurried along progress considerably (and, no, I haven’t yet faded its use, this is a step in itself!)

Separation anxiety training feels fairly banal and very repetitive, with best results coming from careful record keeping of time alone and dog’s reaction – also not a crowd favourite. But, all in all, it is fairly simple and easily executed. Leave the room for 10 seconds. Leave the room for 12 seconds. Leave the room for 7 seconds. Leave the room for 11 seconds. Leave the room for 15 seconds. And on and on and on.

One of the most important aspects in the success of separation anxiety training is MANAGEMENT (surprised? I hope not.) If a dog is constantly being triggered to panic because she is left alone, training will not be successful or at least not as successful as it could be. Leaving a dog to panic today essentially undoes all your hard work of yesterday. For a dog with separation anxiety, management means never being alone. Let that sink in. 24/7, this dog should not be put in a position where anxiety is triggered.

The most enjoyable way to accomplish this is for the dog to hang out with her owner all day. That of course assumes that the owner has a work schedule that accommodates, which is not often the case. Some alternatives include:

stay with a friend or family member
go to day care facility
board at the vet
go for a grooming
go out all day with a dog walker

Due to her issues with other dogs, most of the above options were immediately struck from Lucy’s list of possibilities. Luckily for me, Lucy is comfortable hanging out in the car with a few stuffed Kongs for a couple hours at a time – it is not uncommon for a dog to be comfortable in the car but panic in the house.

This all sounds simple enough, and as trainers we sometimes suggest these strategies without taking into account what the actual cost of separation anxiety is. Let’s look at the finances that go beyond consulting with a qualified trainer:

The cost of “out-sourcing” management to pet professionals is a tremendous strain for many. Day care or all day walks can run $30/day, boarding at the vet $50/day, grooming $60/partial day. One work week of boarding could be $150-250. While this doesn’t make a dent in the income for some, for others it is absolutely cost-prohibitive. Separation anxiety doesn’t strike only the well-to-do! Few have friends or family who are available or willing to care for the dog during the long hours in a work week.

Even if not outsourced, there can still be a cost associated with management. Time taken off work and the impact of restricting an owner’s schedule can reduce income and add a huge amount of stress to a household. This has been the most trying aspect of fostering Lucy, and is compounded by other issues such as her reactivity with dogs as well as the inability to leave her in the car during the summer heat. Rescues don’t have unlimited funds available for vet boarding, either, so this was the most viable option considering my relatively flexible schedule.

A good many separation anxiety training protocols use food dispensing toys as a method of counter conditioning in the owner’s absence. A large Kong runs in the $15 range, and several will be needed. This is the cheapest route, even with a couple pricier toys. I’ve found with Lucy and other dogs that these food toys just aren’t interactive enough. The joy of the Manners Minder is that it doesn’t dispense food until after the person leaves, which means that “leaving predicts food” and not “food predicts leaving”. This is not so with Kongs placed down before departure. The food can actually turn into a departure cue and and trigger the anxiety it is intended to thwart! I’ve also found that the whirring sound and dropping of treats are far more potent than a stationary Kong. A Manners Minder runs in the $150 range, plus shipping as they don’t tend to be available in stores. It has a great many uses, but the average pet owner will likely not use it past the resolution of separation anxiety.



Another technological dohicky of great benefit to training – and indispensable for accurate assessment – is a video camera. A sample of Lucy’s separation anxiety is seen in the video above. If not for video recording, how would a person know that she was about to snap her teeth off on the bars of the crate?! In this age of techy gadgets many people do have this at the ready in some form or another. Webcams, camera phones, and video cameras are all fairly common-place, however if an owner doesn’t subscribe to this all-computers-all-the-time culture there is then an additional cost. In more urban areas libraries will sometimes have cameras available for rent, however due to time constraints this will facilitate only the assessment and not ongoing training.

Finally, medications can be a tremendously helpful addition to a behaviour modification protocol. But, you guessed it, that means another cost and requires a consult with a veterinarian or, better yet, veterinary behaviourist. A great way to reduce the cost of the drugs themselves is to ask the vet to write a prescription for a generic version of the drug to be filled at a pharmacy. If pharmaceuticals aren’t the first stop, there are a number of other options including the Thundershirt, Through a Dog’s Ear, and supplements such as melatonin, l-theanine and lactium, though the price tag remains.

At its worst, separation anxiety is not only devastating for the dog, stressful and expensive for the owner and destructive of property, but it can also destroy relationships. Dogs are routinely surrendered to shelters because the owners cannot deal with the separation anxiety even if they are otherwise terrific and loveable dogs. Our jobs as trainers is to facilitate keeping dogs in homes and out of the shelter. A part of this is recognizing the real cost of separation anxiety, both financial and emotional. An owner’s job is to see the training plan through start to finish with the support and guidance of their trainer. This means not only doing the work but also seeking additional guidance before falling off track. Together, owner and trainer must brainstorm inventive ways to mesh the required training and management with the life and finances of the owner, preventing damaged property and repairing damaged relationships.

UPDATE:

I’m happy to say that within a couple months of this post, Lucy’s separation anxiety has been “solved”. She has her limitations, for example she can’t be left in a confined space, but she is 100% a-ok if she is left loose in her regular living area. A major factor in this success was moving to a new house where being left loose was a possibility (this is with regard to access to the other dogs in the house, the old set up required that she be confined to prevent an incident when no one was home). For Lucy and many SA dogs, being confined increases frustration and thus anxiety. She still gets Kongs and other food toys prior to leaving, but at this point it is to alleviate boredom (and force of habit), not to prevent anxiety. An 8-hour departure isn’t routine for the household schedule, but she’s done it without issue. It can be done!!

scratchandsniff.ca/2013/10/17/the-real-cost-of-separation-anxiety/

Bonjour,

Je sais qu'il existe plusieurs topics à ce sujet mais rien qui ne corresponde vraiment à notre problème. Message un peu long mais nécessaire...

Nous avons jack russel de 8 mois. Depuis 1 mois environ, nous avons observé 2 phénomènes, qui nous mène à la conclusion de l’hyper attachement/anxiété de séparation. Nous voulions confirmation et savoir comment résoudre le problème.

Concrètement, d’une part il mange les murs en plâtre, qu'on soit présents ou absents (il est allé jusqu’à l’isolation une nuit!) Il a un caractère plutôt destructeur de nature, ses jouets ne durent qu’une ou deux semaines généralement.

D’autre part, nous avons installé une caméra et une dizaine de minutes après notre départ, il couine puis pleure/hurle très fort.

Ces deux phénomènes étant assez problématiques, nous aurions voulu savoir s’il existe des solutions pour calmer son comportement :
– supprimer la relation affective pour détacher le chien ?
– diffuseur de phéromones : quel impact à long terme sur la santé du chien ? obligé de garder à vie ?
– consultation chez un comportementaliste canin ?
– autre ?

Pour information, nous avons essayé plusieurs méthodes, dont celle du Kong rempli de gourmandises ou de pâte spéciale. Nous avons même poussé la chose plus loin : lui « cacher » des gourmandises aux quatre coins de la pièce, pour qu’il ne s’ennuie pas.

Niveau jouet, nous lui en donnons 2 différents chaque fois, pour qu’il ne se lasse pas (différentes textures, différents bruits…).

Aujourd’hui nous avons testé 2 fois l'expérience "se préparer, mettre les chaussures, agiter les clés…", il était super paniqué, nous suivait à chaque pas, couinait, se couchait devant la porte d’entrée… Puis nous avons repris une activité normale, il s’est calmé et nous a retrouvés 5-10mn plus tard. Là, il a essayé de nous faire la fête, des léchouilles, des câlins. Nous l’avons ignoré, il est allé dans son panier, et nous l’avons rappelé pour jouer un peu, puisque ce doit toujours être de notre initiative.

Nous réitérerons l’expérience demain, mais travaillant à temps complet mon compagnon et moi, il nous est difficile de poursuivre cette « rééducation » comportementale la semaine…

Selon vous, en combien de temps est-il possible de détecter un changement positif chez le chien ? J’imagine que cela dépend de la profondeur du mal déjà présent, mais juste pour avoir une idée…

Je vous remercie d’avance pour votre réponse.

Bonjour,

Déjà n'oubliez pas le passage par la case présentation, et vous pouvez même y ajouter une photo de votre loulou.

pour le fait qu'il mange les murs même en votre présence, ce n'est pas forcément un signe d'hyperattachement, plutôt d'ennui ou de besoin de machouiller

Consulter un comportementaliste en positif, me semble un bon premier pas à prendre, il vous indiquera comment désensibiliser les stimulus qui déclenchent de l'anxiété par exemple.
Supprimer la relation affective ça me semble un peu radical o.o enfin écrit comme ça ^^:
Continuez à filmer si vous pouvez, ça peut être utile pour le comportementaliste, ou si jamais un voisin se plain que votre chien a aboyé 5h alors qu'en fait il a aboyé 10 min etc...

post fusionné

bonne lecture des pages précédentes ^ ^

PowerUser a écrit:

9) Veillez à vérifier qu'aucun post traitant du sujet qui vous intéresse n'existe sur le forum avant d'en créer un. Cela évitera de nombreux doublons qui éparpillent l'information et la rendent moins accessible. Pensez à utiliser la fonction "Chercher" en mode simple ou avancé (cliker sur google).

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Bon, je savais pas trop quel post remonter ^^ Il y en a un petit paquet sur l'anxiété de séparation XD

Je pense qu'Haku est limite à ce niveau ^^ En journée on n'a jamais eu de soucis, et les voisins nous ont toujours dit qu'elles n'aboient pas en notre absence MAIS... Déjà j'ai eu les grandes vacances : 8 semaines où j'étais bien plus souvent avec elles qu'en temps normal ^^ Puis reprise du boulot et mon homme se casse le poignet 2 semaines après environ... Depuis il est en arrêt (et impossible de prendre le volant pour lui), donc elles ont encore plus tout le temps quelqu'un avec elles ! Bref bref, pas de soucis pour autant quand on part tous les deux (en tout cas, on n'entend pas pleurer ou aboyer quand on s'arrête tout en haut au niveau de la boîte à lettre -elles ne peuvent pas nous voir depuis la maison).

Par contre la nuit c'est autre chose >< Le père et la soeur de mon homme sont venus à la maison dernièrement, sauf que Kira aboie dès qu'une mouche pète s'il y a des gens à la maison >< Donc on a voulu séparer les chiennes de nous la nuit -histoire d'éliminer une partie des aboiements de Kira qui a tendance à nous protéger, sans nous en jeu elle aboie beaucoup moins-. C'te bonne blague : à 3h30, pleurs d'Haku, j'essaie d'ignorer, 10 min passent, elle pleure toujours et vu qu'on a du monde à la maison, ben je la fais rentrer dans la chambre histoire qu'elle empêche pas les autres de dormir... On ne réessaie pas tant que je bosse, j'ai déjà assez de mal à dormir la nuit sans en rajouter >< Mais je suis en vacances cette semaine, on réessaie donc !

Première nuit : échec total, elle ouvre la porte de la chambre -_- On referme, mais elle pleure, pleure, pleure, donc j'attends qu'elle arrête enfin et j'ouvre la porte. Là elle fait vite fait la fête, et pouf se pose le long de mes jambes pour dormir (sauf que non, elles dorment pas avec nous la nuit ^^ Donc je lui demande de descendre ce qu'elle fait direct ^^)
Bref, lendemain, les 2 chiennes sont ultra fatiguées évidemment, nous aussi XD On retente la nuit, mais quand elle chouine (toujours à 3h30 hein, elle est réglée comme une horloge Pas de soucis pour s'endormir sans nous, mais le réveil porte fermée semble difficile !), je me lève et je vais me coucher sur le canapé avec elle. Elle s'endort contre moi, j'attends un peu puis je me lève discrètement pour aller me recoucher : elle ne rechouine pas de la nuit ^^

Cette nuit, on a mis un pan du parc des rates pour bloquer l'entrée de la chambre sans fermer la porte pour autant. Il y a un panier dans le couloir devant la chambre depuis. Bref, ça a été mieux, toujours le réveil à 3h30, quelques pleurs (mais moins), je lui ai parlé un peu, et elle a fini par se recoucher. Encore quelques pleurs à 4h30 puis vers 6h, mais à chaque fois elle se recouche assez vite au final.
Bref voilà, on bosse ça, j'espère qu'on va pas s'apercevoir qu'en journée aussi c'est devenu compliqué ><

Vazaha a écrit:

Bon, je savais pas trop quel post remonter ^^ Il y en a un petit paquet sur l'anxiété de séparation XD

Je pense qu'Haku est limite à ce niveau ^^ En journée on n'a jamais eu de soucis, et les voisins nous ont toujours dit qu'elles n'aboient pas en notre absence MAIS... Déjà j'ai eu les grandes vacances : 8 semaines où j'étais bien plus souvent avec elles qu'en temps normal ^^ Puis reprise du boulot et mon homme se casse le poignet 2 semaines après environ... Depuis il est en arrêt (et impossible de prendre le volant pour lui), donc elles ont encore plus tout le temps quelqu'un avec elles !  Bref bref, pas de soucis pour autant quand on part tous les deux (en tout cas, on n'entend pas pleurer ou aboyer quand on s'arrête tout en haut au niveau de la boîte à lettre -elles ne peuvent pas nous voir depuis la maison).

Par contre la nuit c'est autre chose >< Le père et la soeur de mon homme sont venus à la maison dernièrement, sauf que Kira aboie dès qu'une mouche pète s'il y a des gens à la maison >< Donc on a voulu séparer les chiennes de nous la nuit -histoire d'éliminer une partie des aboiements de Kira qui a tendance à nous protéger, sans nous en jeu elle aboie beaucoup moins-. C'te bonne blague : à 3h30, pleurs d'Haku, j'essaie d'ignorer, 10 min passent, elle pleure toujours et vu qu'on a du monde à la maison, ben je la fais rentrer dans la chambre histoire qu'elle empêche pas les autres de dormir... On ne réessaie pas tant que je bosse, j'ai déjà assez de mal à dormir la nuit sans en rajouter >< Mais je suis en vacances cette semaine, on réessaie donc !

Première nuit : échec total, elle ouvre la porte de la chambre -_- On referme, mais elle pleure, pleure, pleure, donc j'attends qu'elle arrête enfin et j'ouvre la porte. Là elle fait vite fait la fête, et pouf se pose le long de mes jambes pour dormir (sauf que non, elles dorment pas avec nous la nuit ^^ Donc je lui demande de descendre ce qu'elle fait direct ^^)
Bref, lendemain, les 2 chiennes sont ultra fatiguées évidemment, nous aussi XD On retente la nuit, mais quand elle chouine (toujours à 3h30 hein, elle est réglée comme une horloge Pas de soucis pour s'endormir sans nous, mais le réveil porte fermée semble difficile !), je me lève et je vais me coucher sur le canapé avec elle. Elle s'endort contre moi, j'attends un peu puis je me lève discrètement pour aller me recoucher : elle ne rechouine pas de la nuit ^^

Cette nuit, on a mis un pan du parc des rates pour bloquer l'entrée de la chambre sans fermer la porte pour autant. Il y a un panier dans le couloir devant la chambre depuis. Bref, ça a été mieux, toujours le réveil à 3h30, quelques pleurs (mais moins), je lui ai parlé un peu, et elle a fini par se recoucher. Encore quelques pleurs à 4h30 puis vers 6h, mais à chaque fois elle se recouche assez vite au final.
Bref voilà, on bosse ça, j'espère qu'on va pas s'apercevoir qu'en journée aussi c'est devenu compliqué ><

Heu, t'es sure qu'elle a assez d'exercices physiques ou mentaux dans la journée...?
Un chien fatigué, ca dort la nuit.

Bon sorry, c'est le seul problème que je n'ai jamais eu.
Même dans les pires périodes, Orville la nuit il roupille.

J'suis parfois obligé d'aller le "border" comme tu as fait par contre.
Il vient me le demander. ^^
Enfin si il est vraiment crevé, non.

Moi ca me gêne pas du tout, ca dure 5 minutes et voila.
J'en profite pour lire un peu ou un truc de ce genre là.

Par contre, c'est quasiment un rituel quoi. Si tu commences à le faire régulièrement, t'es foutue.
Mais bon, a ta place, moi je passerais avec elle 5 minutes le soir plutot que de me faire réveiller en pleine nuit trois fois...

Ben le soir ça pose pas du tout soucis, de toutes façons on regarde toujours au moins un épisode de série ensemble le soir, donc elle dort sur le canapé contre/sur nous pendant ce temps XD Elle ne se couche pas tant qu'on n'est pas couchés, donc je ne peux pas trop la "border", faudrait que je m'endorme avec elle quoi, mais je ne suis pas sûre que ça supprimerait le réveil de 3h30 vu que "l'endormissement" initial ne pose pas soucis...

Pour l'activité physique/mentale, j'espère XD Bon, il y a des jours où elles n'ont pas la balade dans les environs en ce moment (on vient d'acheter la maison et en ce moment quand on bosse toute la journée en extérieur, on ne les balade pas forcément en plus). Mais on fait du clicker (des tricks), de l'agility, et des balades (1h min) (pas forcément les 3 le même jour donc mais au moins 2 par jour) Elles ont l'air fatiguées le soir, d'ailleurs la nuit où elle a pleuré longtemps, le lendemain elle était crevée, comme Kira, on les a donc isolées toutes les 2 dans la chambre toute la matinée pour qu'elles puissent se reposer, et vu l'absence totale de bruit, elles ont dormi XD

Ah, vous venez d'emménager récemment ?

Dis euh, toi aussi tu serais une bonne candidate pour la machine à bruit blanc. ^^
Y a ptet des petits bruits dont elle l'a pas encore l'habitude qui la réveille.

lol je me posais la question pour la machine à bruit blanc justement ces derniers jours XD
On a emménagé mi-juillet, mais on est partis en vacances 3 semaines en août (aucun soucis en camion la nuit).

Vazaha a écrit:

lol je me posais la question pour la machine à bruit blanc justement ces derniers jours XD
On a emménagé mi-juillet, mais on est partis en vacances 3 semaines en août (aucun soucis en camion la nuit).

Ah ben alors oui ! C'est normal tout çà !
Et encore mon dieu, si y a que çà après un déménagement, t'as de la chance !

Tu mets la machine à bruit blanc où elle dort et le soir, avant de te coucher, j'utiliserais aussi un spray aux phéromones sur son dodo.
Histoire de la rassurer !

Ca devrait le faire !

Vous avez changé d'environnement en déménageant ? Genre passé de la ville à la campagne ?
Les bruits environnants sont différents ?

je comprends la machine a bruits blanc pour un chien super anxieux qui casse les oreilles de tout le monde a longueur de journée... mais si c'est juste les bruits inconnus a apprivoiser, laisser faire le temps c'est pas mal aussi ! non ?

3h30 (plus 4h en fait) c'est l'heure ou tout le monde se réveille un peu. si on est en confiance : on dort !
là y a plusieurs changements : le déménagements ok mais aussi la présence d'autres humains, et le changement du rituel dodo ... et c'est ce dernier point qui a créé le soucis a mon avis ^^

Je découvre la machine a bruit blanc dis donc :-)

mitee a écrit:

je comprends la machine a bruits blanc pour un chien super anxieux qui casse les oreilles de tout le monde a longueur de journée... mais si c'est juste les bruits inconnus a apprivoiser, laisser faire le temps c'est pas mal aussi ! non ?

3h30 (plus 4h en fait) c'est l'heure ou tout le monde se réveille un peu. si on est en confiance : on dort !
là y a plusieurs changements : le déménagements ok mais aussi la présence d'autres humains, et le changement du rituel dodo ...  et c'est ce dernier point qui a créé le soucis a mon avis ^^

Mais la machine à bruit blanc ne fait pas que masquer les bruits environnants, rontudju !
Si le chien a un bien tempérament anxieux comme il semble le cas ici, ben euh pourquoi pas ?

Enfin bon, j'suis d'accord avec toi aussi, c'est ptet pas la peine de sortir tout le matériel de guerre tout de suite non plus.
En même temps, tu prends le risque ca puisse empirer. ^^

Alors non Haku est pas anxieuse habituellement (Kira oui, mais elle a toujours été habituée aux déménagements, donc ça ça pose pas problème).
On est passé en campagne, mais on était déjà en ville sans trop de bruits environnants (pas de route ultra passante autour, et dans une impasse donc pas énormément de vie non plus la nuit). Avant on avait un étage, là tout est de plein pied. Jusqu'à juin à peu près elle dormait au rez de chaussée (donc sans nous) avec Kira, puisque pas le droit de monter les escaliers. Quand on a enlevé la barrière pour commencer à refaire la maison avant de la rendre, elle a commencé à dormir dans la chambre. Ici elle a toujours eu accès à la chambre aussi, mais en fait, il n'y a qu'un panier dans la chambre, et c'est la première descendue du lit qui le "gagne" XD L'autre dort ailleurs dans la maison ^^ Quand c'est Kira (régulièrement ^^ Elle se dépêche de descendre vite vite pour prendre le panier ), Haku dort soit au pied du lit, soit dans le couloir (pour être sur le carrelage), soit dans le salon, ça ne pose pas de soucis.

Ah ben tiens, suffisait d'en parler : aucun pleur cette nuit ^^ Bon par contre moi je me suis réveillée à 5h du matin pour aller boire, donc elle était toute contente, mais elle s'est recouchée sans pleurer ensuite

je triche j'ai rencontré la vazaha's familly donc je savais déjà que la haku c'est plus zen attitude ^^ que angoisse a fond !

contente que ca aille mieux vazaha