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A propos du Forum

Nous tenons à préciser que ce forum a été créé dans le but de vous faire découvrir la possibilité d'une éducation utilisant une approche positive et respectueuse de votre chien.

Si vous avez des problèmes avec votre ou vos chiens, nous vous recommandons vivement de faire appel à un éducateur canin spécialisé en rééducation comportementale ou à un comportementaliste (utilisant le renforcement positif et aucun outil coercitif, cela va sans dire).

Les explications et conseils donnés sur ce forum ne sont là que pour vous orienter et vous informer des possibilités qui vous sont offertes pour éduquer votre compagnon à quatre pattes.

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Asso’ Bêtes de Scène

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L'association « Bêtes de Scène » (association de protection animale de loi 1901) est située près de Bain de Bretagne (35).

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& sur le forum
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MessageSujet: Re: C. Millan: avis?   C. Millan: avis? - Page 15 EmptyMar 9 Juil 2013 - 17:50

Une multitude!!!!!! C. Millan: avis? - Page 15 4048880322
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MessageSujet: Re: C. Millan: avis?   C. Millan: avis? - Page 15 EmptyMar 9 Juil 2013 - 18:20

Merci pour ce très bon article qui démontre l'absurdité de ces méthodes révolues avec une multitude de références. De quoi argumenter sérieusement sans s'énerver. Je vais mettre le lien sur mon site, en espérant que plein de gens le lise et changent enfin leur vision du chien.
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MessageSujet: Re: C. Millan: avis?   C. Millan: avis? - Page 15 EmptyMar 4 Fév 2014 - 19:58

C'est pas pour relancer le débat mais parce que j'ai trouvé un article sur lui toute à l'heure en cherchant des infos sur le pica! C. Millan: avis? - Page 15 3472156054

http://www.petsadviser.com/news/cesar-millan-critics/

Vu le nombre de coms en sa faveur, il a encore des millions à se faire et encore quelques chiens à "kicker" sous prétexte de réhabilitation (argument avancé par ses supporters: il ne fait pas d'éducation mais de la réhab').

Dommage qu'il n'ait jamais su se remettre en question totalement et servir la cause de l'éducation positive et amicale vu sa notoriété et sa crédibilité! Sad

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MessageSujet: Re: C. Millan: avis?   C. Millan: avis? - Page 15 EmptyMar 4 Fév 2014 - 19:58

C'est pas pour relancer le débat mais parce que j'ai trouvé un article sur lui toute à l'heure en cherchant des infos sur le pica! C. Millan: avis? - Page 15 3472156054

http://www.petsadviser.com/news/cesar-millan-critics/

Vu le nombre de coms en sa faveur, il a encore des millions à se faire et encore quelques chiens à "kicker" sous prétexte de réhabilitation (argument avancé par ses supporters: il ne fait pas d'éducation mais de la réhab').

Dommage qu'il n'ait jamais su se remettre en question totalement et servir la cause de l'éducation positive et amicale vu sa notoriété et sa crédibilité! Sad

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MessageSujet: Re: C. Millan: avis?   C. Millan: avis? - Page 15 EmptyMar 4 Fév 2014 - 20:04

il avance dans le bon sens ... encore qques années
il y en a chez nous qui n'avancent pas du tout voire qui régressent ...
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MessageSujet: Re: C. Millan: avis?   C. Millan: avis? - Page 15 EmptyMar 4 Fév 2014 - 20:06

C'est encourageant ce que tu dis...

Je ne sais pas si je dois Surprised ou Crying or Very sad...

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MessageSujet: Re: C. Millan: avis?   C. Millan: avis? - Page 15 EmptyJeu 7 Mai 2015 - 22:02

Citation :
Why I Love Cesar Milan Fans
Jeff Silverman  |  Tue, 05/31/2011 - 08:36

It happens about once a month.  Some enthusiastic student keeps punctuating my opening remarks to a new class with that “tsst!” sound popularized by Cesar Milan.  The dog on the receiving end of this “correction” seldom seems to notice.  He has usually learned to tune it out completely.  I envy him.  That sound travels up my spine like nails on a chalk board.  Somehow it taps directly into my frustration over the fact that - in spite of all that we have learned in recent decades – the public face of dog training in the US relies on confrontation and pseudo-mystical ideas about projecting the right energy towards the furry Machiavellis who allegedly spend their lives like Pinky and the Brain, plotting to take over the world.  Fortunately, I am able to take a deep breath, ignore the sound, and remind myself that I LOVE it when new clients are Cesar fans.  I honestly do, and for many reasons.

My enthusiasm for clients who love TDW is a matter of perspective.  I never let myself forget that I view Cesar from a very different angle than my clients.  As a professional dog trainer, I’m aware of many alternative approaches to training, I can see the stress and fear in the body language of dogs he forces into frightening situations, and I know enough to reject pack theory.  That list just scratches the surface of things I see when I watch TDW that are invisible to most novice dog owners.  I don’t hesitate to voice my criticisms of TDW in a forum like DSD, when speaking to vets, or if asked by a reporter.  When I’m talking to a new client who loves Cesar, however, I take a different approach.  Instead of broadcasting my perception of Milan’s ideas, I focus on how they might appear from my student’s vantage point.

I like what Cesar fandom tells me about a new student.  It demonstrates an interest in dog behavior and motivation to learn.  I also see a lot to love in what Cesar teaches.  Cesar fans generally understand their responsibility to meet their dog’s basic needs.  They have thoroughly internalized the notion that training a well-behaved dog requires owners to set clear consistent boundaries.  They’ve learned that prolonged or emotional punishments are inappropriate.  That might all seem obvious to a pro, but it’s information that puts TDW fans ahead of most of my beginning students.

Cesar fans have, of course, also learned some things that I don’t appreciate.  Fortunately, I find it ridiculously easy to convince most students to put those things aside and try it my way.  Message delivery is the key.  Nobody likes to be told that they’re wrong, but most people will accept a suggestion to try something new if they trust and like the person making that suggestion.    

Imagine that you had taken on a difficult new activity and been completely overwhelmed until you found a popular “expert” who made sense of your situation.  Think of the respect and admiration you would feel for someone who finally allowed you to make some progress, to feel some hope and pride in your accomplishments after months of struggle, frustration and guilt.  Picture yourself so excited that you sign up for a class to build upon this empowering new knowledge and skill.  You might even look forward to impressing people with how much you’ve learned from the celebrity’s books and videos.

How would you react if your very first conversation with your new teacher centered on his strong disapproval of the “expert” who had helped you so much?  How open would you be to the idea that everything that you have learned so far is completely wrong?  Who would you be more prone to believe, the celebrity who has millions flocking to hear his advice or the trainer you just met whose claims belie your own experience?

In order to avoid immediately putting clients on the defensive, I always start any conversation about Cesar with the things that I sincerely like about him.  I talk about his focus on calm, consistent boundary setting, his preaching about exercise, and his emphasis on owners’ responsibility to meet dogs’ needs.  I might mention his excellent timing, balance, and ability to remain calm even when a dog bites him.

Those are small things, but they establish common ground.  I’m acknowledging the value of my client’s opinions.  There’s an important subtext there.  I’m telling him, “you have good judgment.”  If, on the other hand, I open with what I dislike about Cesar, I risk him hearing “what are you, an idiot to listen to that guy?”  Even worse, if I emphasize my opinion that Cesar’s methods are too rough, I’m not just calling him an idiot, but an idiot who mistreats his dog.  Not a great way to establish a rapport.    

Once I’ve established some common ground, I can bring out the criticism that almost everyone relates to.  TDW, I’ll remind my students, is a television show.  Its producers value entertainment over education.  I’ll suggest that they heavily edit the footage to make long processes look instant and to cover up some of the harsher techniques.  I might show them how I or my assistant can get their rowdy unruly dog to heel perfectly in about a minute, and ask them if they think their dog is now trained.  Sometimes I’ll suggest that Cesar probably doesn’t like all the fancy editing, either, and is just stuck doing it the network’s way.  I’m asking them to think differently without making the person they admire the bad guy.      

Next I’ll tell them that, while Cesar has impressive physical skills, he’s a bit of a self-taught prodigy who doesn’t even appear to understand why what he does works.  I tell them that I wish he spent more time on the importance of timing and teaching people to read the dogs; and speculate that he might not even be thinking consciously about these things that are keys to his success.  I’ll mention the professionals who really do understand the whys and their consensus that Cesar’s explanations are mostly nonsense.  Again, I’m mixing praise and criticism rather than going for the frontal assault.      

Finally, I’ll mention that since Cesar is training for television, he uses difficult techniques with minimal explanation, and that – in spite of his physical skill – he frequently gets bitten.  I tell them that I – on the other hand – will be teaching them simple techniques that over the years have proven effective for the real lives of busy families who aren’t looking to become dog training experts.  They won’t necessarily be the same techniques I would use, because I can’t teach them to do everything that I’ve learned over many years in a few weeks any more than Cesar can teach them everything he does with a few books and heavily edited videos.  I’ll suggest that it’s easier, safer, and more fun to do it my way without ever insisting that they view their attachment to TDW as a mistake.

This approach almost always breaks down any resistance to my training techniques.  It’s a very simple spiel.  The first and most important step is to sincerely see things through the clients’ eyes and have empathy for their experience.  The rest is easy.  Establish common ground by starting off with some praise for Cesar, explain that it’s a TV show where you don’t see the whole picture, gently and humbly provide a bit of education about the community of true professionals, and finally reassure your client that you will be teaching them practical real world techniques suitable for families rather than dangerous advanced stuff tailored for maximum TV drama.   It’s been a great pitch for me, and I really do find that the people who come into class as big Cesar fans are often my best students.      

www.trainingtracks.com  

http://www.dogstardaily.com/blogs/why-i-love-cesar-milan-fans

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MessageSujet: Re: C. Millan: avis?   C. Millan: avis? - Page 15 EmptyJeu 7 Mai 2015 - 22:12

Cet entraineur a BEAUCOUP de patience... parce que perso, les gens qui m'ont dit aimer CM, c'était généralement le côté "ça me donne une paire de cou!lles fictives de DOMINER mon chien"... ça ça me fait instantanément gerber, je le reconnais...
J'aurais sûrement à y faire face en pro, mais pour l'instant, j'ai un peu de mal à me figurer comment je vais prendre ces gens-là par la main pour les faire changer... Le chien le mérite, je ferai donc l'effort, mais j'en ai des nausées rien que d'y penser...
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MessageSujet: Re: C. Millan: avis?   C. Millan: avis? - Page 15 EmptyVen 8 Mai 2015 - 1:40

Citation :
Critics Challenge 'Dog Whisperer' Methods
Lynne Peeples | November 12, 2009 05:05am ET

JonBee jumps up at Cesar Millan, his sharp teeth snapping repeatedly. Millan calmly yanks on the leash and pulls the wolf-like Korean Jindo away. This continues for over a minute, with Millan’s face remaining undisturbed and JonBee’s owners gasping on the other side of the living room. Finally, the dog shows a moment of weakness. Millan quickly pins him to the floor and rolls him onto his side. Millan’s calmness seems to be reflected in the dog now lying frozen in submission.

Every Friday night, troubled American dogs undergo a seemingly miraculous transformation on national television. The magician is Cesar Millan, better known as the “Dog Whisperer.” He is the current face of dog training, and he has brought “dominance theory,” an age-old training technique, back into canine conversation and practice.

To understand how to control a dog’s behavior, according to Millan, one needs to look at the hierarchy of wolf packs. Domestic dogowners must confidently carry the title of “pack leader” and assume power over their pets.

But many dog trainers and behavior experts criticize the show, advocating a gentler approach to training that replaces coercion and physical behavior corrections with food rewards and other forms of positive reinforcement. They point to new studies that have placed the two popular dog-training methods head-to-head and almost universally shown positive training to be more successful than punitive methods in reducing aggression and disobedience.

Millan may have the ratings, they argue, but purely positive trainers have the science.

No more crying wolf

Millan’s concept of dominance is based on an old understanding of the behavior of wolves. In the 1960s, researchers observed that wolves formed large packs in which certain individuals beat out others to earn “top dog” status. These were called “alphas.” Millan contends that a dog displaying aggression is trying to establish dominance and attain alpha status, much like its ancestors. He advises humans to take on this position themselves, forcefully if necessary, to keep the dog in a submissive role.

Dog trainers whose practices are grounded in these concepts, such as the late Bill Koehler and Captain Arthur Haggerty, have dominated the business for most of the past half-century. But as Dave Mech, an expert on wolf behavior at the University of Minnesota, points out, the early wolf research — much of it his own — was done on animals living in captivity.

Mech has been studying wolves for 50 years now, yet only over the past decade has he gotten a clear picture of these animals in their natural habitats. And what he’s found is far from the domineering behavior popularized by Millan. “In the wild it works just like it does in the human family,” says Mech. “They don’t have to fight to get to the top. When they mature and find a mate they are at the top.” In other words, wolves don't need to play the “alpha” game to win.

In the 1980s, around the same time that our understanding of wolves began to change, positive dog-training methods slowly emerged from the fringes and grew in popularity. A tug-of-war continues today between dog trainers practicing predominantly positive reinforcement and those using punishment-based techniques.

Nicholas Dodman, director of the Animal Behavior Clinic at Tufts University, is one of the leading proponents of positive training methods. He believes the source of most bad behavior, especially owner-directed aggression, is mistrust and recommends rebuilding a dog’s trust by “making sure that the dog understands that all good things in life come only and obviously from you.” To get those things — whether food or basic attention — the dog must learn to please you first.

But others see these techniques as little more than pampering borne out of lax and inappropriate attitudes toward pets that have recently come into vogue. “In the last ten to fifteen years it’s become, ‘don’t ever say ‘No’ to your dog; don’t ever punish dogs,’” says Babette Haggerty, who is carrying on her father’s dominance-based teaching at Haggerty’s School for Dogs in Manhattan. “I think people are coddling dogs more than ever before.”

But in 2004, “The Dog Whisperer” — Millan's doggy psych 101 — premiered on the National Geographic Channel, and the momentum mounting in the positive direction was stymied. “In America, we [had begun] using human psychology on dogs,” Millan says in an email. “What was needed was for humans to learn dog psychology.”

Perils of punishment

Many veterinary behaviorists believe punishment-based techniques, like those seen on the show, could come back to bite dog owners. The National Geographic Channel even posts a warning on the screen during each episode: “Do not attempt these techniques yourself without consulting a professional.”

According to a paper in the May 2009 issue of the Journal of Veterinary Behavior: Clinical Applications and Research, attempts to assert dominance over a dog can increase a dog’s aggression. Researchers from the University of Bristol in the United Kingdom studied dogs in a shelter for six months, while also reanalyzing data from previous studies of feral dogs. Their findings support those of the Mech at the University of Minnesota: dogs don’t fight to get to the top of a “pack.” Rather, violence appears to be copycat behavior — something borne of nurture, not nature.

In another recent study, around 25 percent of owners using confrontational training techniques reported aggressive responses from their dogs. “The source of dog aggression has nothing to do with social hierarchy, but it does, in fact, have to do with fear,” says Meghan Herron, a veterinarian at The Ohio State University and lead author of the study published in the January 2009 issue of Applied Animal Behavior Science. “These dogs are acting aggressively as a response to fear.”

Dogs react physiologically to stress and fear in the same way people do, with hormones. Two 2008 studies out of Hungary and Japan showed, respectively, that concentrations of the stress hormone cortisol increased in dogs that were strictly disciplined and that levels were linked to elevation of aggressive behavior. What’s more, an Irish study found that physically or verbally reprimanding a dog with a history of biting people was one of the significant predictors of a subsequent bite. The results were published in April 2008 in Applied Animal Behavior Science.

“[All these studies] confirm what many of us have said for a long time,” says Pat Miller, owner of Peaceable Paws dog and puppy training in Hagerstown, Maryland. “If you use aggression in training your dog, you’re likely to elicit aggression back.”

Paybacks of positive reinforcement

Before practicing professionally as a dog trainer, Jolanta Benal of Brooklyn, New York, learned the difference between positive and punitive methods personally.

Her dog, Mugsy, had an attraction to men in uniform. Whether they were wearing UPS brown or U.S. Postal Service blue, Benal's bulldog would lunge at them on the street. So she hired a highly recommended dog trainer to try to correct this behavior.

“He would set Mugsy up to do offending behavior, and then throw a can full of pennies at the dog,” she says. “It was a traditional old school technique. And it worked to suppress the problem behavior — at least in the moment.” Mugsy’s unhealthy obsession with the postal workers, however, did not go away. Even if he didn’t always jump at the UPS guy on a walk-by, says Benal, he wasn’t happy to see him either.

Benal then traded in for a new trainer that brought chicken instead of coins. As the man in uniform approached, Benal was now instructed to distract Mugsy by giving him the treat. And it worked. After several times, the dog would look to her in expectation, rather than towards the uniform-clad men in alarm. “For the last year of his life, he was an angel,” says Benal. “It was amazing the changes it brought.”

Millan argues that using food to coax dogs may be impractical: “It can result in an addiction to treats or an overweight dog,” he says in an email. However, Dodman of Tufts University explains that trainers only give food at the beginning of training. After a period of time, owners should reward intermittently, reinforcing the response. “If every time you played the lottery you won money, then the excitement wouldn’t be there anymore,” says Dodman. “The thrill for the dog is ‘Will I get a treat this time?’” Back-aches from stooping low to feed a dog, or the added cost of extra chicken or doggy treats, he believes, are far less dreadful than the anxiety and altered relationships caused by the punitive alternative.

Dodman has some data to back him up. In February 2004, a paper in Animal Welfare by Elly Hiby and colleagues at the University of Bristol compared the relative effectiveness of the positive and punitive methods for the first time. The dogs became more obedient the more they were trained using rewards. When they were punished, on the other hand, the only significant change was a corresponding rise in the number of bad behaviors.

A series of more recent papers also support Dodman’s theory and Hiby’s results. A study published in the October 2008 issue of Journal of Veterinary Behavior found that positive reinforcement led to the lowest average scores for fear and attention-seeking behaviors, while aggression scores were higher in dogs of owners who used punishment. Another 2008 study, this one published in Applied Animal Behavior Science, found that positive training methods resulted in better performances than punishment for Belgian military dog handlers.

Bridging the differences in dogma

It’s hard to argue that the slow, patient techniques used in positive reinforcement would elicit the same dramatic moments seen on Cesar Millan’s show. “There’s a big difference between looking at behavior as a ‘Stop that’ versus a ‘Here’s what I want,’” says Bruce Blumberg, a professor of dog psychology at the Harvard Extension School. “Positive reinforcement is a different mindset. And it’s one that doesn’t work quite as well on TV.”

Dodman is one of many people who have asked the National Geographic Channel to discontinue “The Dog Whisperer,” consistently one of the highest-rated shows on the network. The American Humane Association issued a press statement in 2006 asking for a cancellation because of what they suggested were abusive techniques used by Millan. More recently, the American Veterinary Society of Animal Behavior issued a position statement in which it expresses concern “with the recent reemergence of dominance theory and forcing dogs and other animals into submission as a means of preventing and correcting behaviors.”

Millan defends his methods, asserting they “use the minimum force necessary to prevent or correct a problem.” According to the dog rehabilitator, he can “redirect the behavior of most of my pack with just my body language, eye contact and energy.” He points to the “thousands upon thousands of letters” he receives from viewers touting “miracles” of restored relationships and saved dogs. “All I want is what is best for the animal,” Millan says.

Despite the controversy, there is a lot that everyone agrees on. Both sides of the training spectrum teach that a lack of discipline or structure is not conducive to a well-behaved dog. “Dogs need direction and boundaries, just like human relationships,” says Haggerty, the trainer from the School for Dogs in Manhattan, which uses dominance theory. “If dogs don’t know what the boundaries are, they will wreak havoc.”

How a dog owner projects those boundaries is also important. “You have to be calm, you have to be clear, you have to be consistent, and you have to make sure you meet your pet’s needs for other things: exercise, play, social interaction,” says Herron of The Ohio State University.

So what does an owner do when a calm and structured environment still breeds a misfit pup like JonBee? Should it be the leash and hand that redirects the dog, or poultry and patience? Current science favors the chicken flavor. But whichever strategy you choose, everyone agrees that the timing must be precise. It is very difficult for a dog to make an appropriate association and learn from the reprimand or reward otherwise.

Of course, if you take Blumberg’s Harvard class, he'll tell you, “If your timing is lousy using positive reinforcement, the worst thing that happens is you get a fat dog.”

http://www.livescience.com/5846-critics-challenge-dog-whisperer-methods.html

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MessageSujet: Re: C. Millan: avis?   C. Millan: avis? - Page 15 EmptyVen 8 Mai 2015 - 1:40

Citation :
Critics Challenge 'Dog Whisperer' Methods
Lynne Peeples | November 12, 2009 05:05am ET

JonBee jumps up at Cesar Millan, his sharp teeth snapping repeatedly. Millan calmly yanks on the leash and pulls the wolf-like Korean Jindo away. This continues for over a minute, with Millan’s face remaining undisturbed and JonBee’s owners gasping on the other side of the living room. Finally, the dog shows a moment of weakness. Millan quickly pins him to the floor and rolls him onto his side. Millan’s calmness seems to be reflected in the dog now lying frozen in submission.

Every Friday night, troubled American dogs undergo a seemingly miraculous transformation on national television. The magician is Cesar Millan, better known as the “Dog Whisperer.” He is the current face of dog training, and he has brought “dominance theory,” an age-old training technique, back into canine conversation and practice.

To understand how to control a dog’s behavior, according to Millan, one needs to look at the hierarchy of wolf packs. Domestic dogowners must confidently carry the title of “pack leader” and assume power over their pets.

But many dog trainers and behavior experts criticize the show, advocating a gentler approach to training that replaces coercion and physical behavior corrections with food rewards and other forms of positive reinforcement. They point to new studies that have placed the two popular dog-training methods head-to-head and almost universally shown positive training to be more successful than punitive methods in reducing aggression and disobedience.

Millan may have the ratings, they argue, but purely positive trainers have the science.

No more crying wolf

Millan’s concept of dominance is based on an old understanding of the behavior of wolves. In the 1960s, researchers observed that wolves formed large packs in which certain individuals beat out others to earn “top dog” status. These were called “alphas.” Millan contends that a dog displaying aggression is trying to establish dominance and attain alpha status, much like its ancestors. He advises humans to take on this position themselves, forcefully if necessary, to keep the dog in a submissive role.

Dog trainers whose practices are grounded in these concepts, such as the late Bill Koehler and Captain Arthur Haggerty, have dominated the business for most of the past half-century. But as Dave Mech, an expert on wolf behavior at the University of Minnesota, points out, the early wolf research — much of it his own — was done on animals living in captivity.

Mech has been studying wolves for 50 years now, yet only over the past decade has he gotten a clear picture of these animals in their natural habitats. And what he’s found is far from the domineering behavior popularized by Millan. “In the wild it works just like it does in the human family,” says Mech. “They don’t have to fight to get to the top. When they mature and find a mate they are at the top.” In other words, wolves don't need to play the “alpha” game to win.

In the 1980s, around the same time that our understanding of wolves began to change, positive dog-training methods slowly emerged from the fringes and grew in popularity. A tug-of-war continues today between dog trainers practicing predominantly positive reinforcement and those using punishment-based techniques.

Nicholas Dodman, director of the Animal Behavior Clinic at Tufts University, is one of the leading proponents of positive training methods. He believes the source of most bad behavior, especially owner-directed aggression, is mistrust and recommends rebuilding a dog’s trust by “making sure that the dog understands that all good things in life come only and obviously from you.” To get those things — whether food or basic attention — the dog must learn to please you first.

But others see these techniques as little more than pampering borne out of lax and inappropriate attitudes toward pets that have recently come into vogue. “In the last ten to fifteen years it’s become, ‘don’t ever say ‘No’ to your dog; don’t ever punish dogs,’” says Babette Haggerty, who is carrying on her father’s dominance-based teaching at Haggerty’s School for Dogs in Manhattan. “I think people are coddling dogs more than ever before.”

But in 2004, “The Dog Whisperer” — Millan's doggy psych 101 — premiered on the National Geographic Channel, and the momentum mounting in the positive direction was stymied. “In America, we [had begun] using human psychology on dogs,” Millan says in an email. “What was needed was for humans to learn dog psychology.”

Perils of punishment

Many veterinary behaviorists believe punishment-based techniques, like those seen on the show, could come back to bite dog owners. The National Geographic Channel even posts a warning on the screen during each episode: “Do not attempt these techniques yourself without consulting a professional.”

According to a paper in the May 2009 issue of the Journal of Veterinary Behavior: Clinical Applications and Research, attempts to assert dominance over a dog can increase a dog’s aggression. Researchers from the University of Bristol in the United Kingdom studied dogs in a shelter for six months, while also reanalyzing data from previous studies of feral dogs. Their findings support those of the Mech at the University of Minnesota: dogs don’t fight to get to the top of a “pack.” Rather, violence appears to be copycat behavior — something borne of nurture, not nature.

In another recent study, around 25 percent of owners using confrontational training techniques reported aggressive responses from their dogs. “The source of dog aggression has nothing to do with social hierarchy, but it does, in fact, have to do with fear,” says Meghan Herron, a veterinarian at The Ohio State University and lead author of the study published in the January 2009 issue of Applied Animal Behavior Science. “These dogs are acting aggressively as a response to fear.”

Dogs react physiologically to stress and fear in the same way people do, with hormones. Two 2008 studies out of Hungary and Japan showed, respectively, that concentrations of the stress hormone cortisol increased in dogs that were strictly disciplined and that levels were linked to elevation of aggressive behavior. What’s more, an Irish study found that physically or verbally reprimanding a dog with a history of biting people was one of the significant predictors of a subsequent bite. The results were published in April 2008 in Applied Animal Behavior Science.

“[All these studies] confirm what many of us have said for a long time,” says Pat Miller, owner of Peaceable Paws dog and puppy training in Hagerstown, Maryland. “If you use aggression in training your dog, you’re likely to elicit aggression back.”

Paybacks of positive reinforcement

Before practicing professionally as a dog trainer, Jolanta Benal of Brooklyn, New York, learned the difference between positive and punitive methods personally.

Her dog, Mugsy, had an attraction to men in uniform. Whether they were wearing UPS brown or U.S. Postal Service blue, Benal's bulldog would lunge at them on the street. So she hired a highly recommended dog trainer to try to correct this behavior.

“He would set Mugsy up to do offending behavior, and then throw a can full of pennies at the dog,” she says. “It was a traditional old school technique. And it worked to suppress the problem behavior — at least in the moment.” Mugsy’s unhealthy obsession with the postal workers, however, did not go away. Even if he didn’t always jump at the UPS guy on a walk-by, says Benal, he wasn’t happy to see him either.

Benal then traded in for a new trainer that brought chicken instead of coins. As the man in uniform approached, Benal was now instructed to distract Mugsy by giving him the treat. And it worked. After several times, the dog would look to her in expectation, rather than towards the uniform-clad men in alarm. “For the last year of his life, he was an angel,” says Benal. “It was amazing the changes it brought.”

Millan argues that using food to coax dogs may be impractical: “It can result in an addiction to treats or an overweight dog,” he says in an email. However, Dodman of Tufts University explains that trainers only give food at the beginning of training. After a period of time, owners should reward intermittently, reinforcing the response. “If every time you played the lottery you won money, then the excitement wouldn’t be there anymore,” says Dodman. “The thrill for the dog is ‘Will I get a treat this time?’” Back-aches from stooping low to feed a dog, or the added cost of extra chicken or doggy treats, he believes, are far less dreadful than the anxiety and altered relationships caused by the punitive alternative.

Dodman has some data to back him up. In February 2004, a paper in Animal Welfare by Elly Hiby and colleagues at the University of Bristol compared the relative effectiveness of the positive and punitive methods for the first time. The dogs became more obedient the more they were trained using rewards. When they were punished, on the other hand, the only significant change was a corresponding rise in the number of bad behaviors.

A series of more recent papers also support Dodman’s theory and Hiby’s results. A study published in the October 2008 issue of Journal of Veterinary Behavior found that positive reinforcement led to the lowest average scores for fear and attention-seeking behaviors, while aggression scores were higher in dogs of owners who used punishment. Another 2008 study, this one published in Applied Animal Behavior Science, found that positive training methods resulted in better performances than punishment for Belgian military dog handlers.

Bridging the differences in dogma

It’s hard to argue that the slow, patient techniques used in positive reinforcement would elicit the same dramatic moments seen on Cesar Millan’s show. “There’s a big difference between looking at behavior as a ‘Stop that’ versus a ‘Here’s what I want,’” says Bruce Blumberg, a professor of dog psychology at the Harvard Extension School. “Positive reinforcement is a different mindset. And it’s one that doesn’t work quite as well on TV.”

Dodman is one of many people who have asked the National Geographic Channel to discontinue “The Dog Whisperer,” consistently one of the highest-rated shows on the network. The American Humane Association issued a press statement in 2006 asking for a cancellation because of what they suggested were abusive techniques used by Millan. More recently, the American Veterinary Society of Animal Behavior issued a position statement in which it expresses concern “with the recent reemergence of dominance theory and forcing dogs and other animals into submission as a means of preventing and correcting behaviors.”

Millan defends his methods, asserting they “use the minimum force necessary to prevent or correct a problem.” According to the dog rehabilitator, he can “redirect the behavior of most of my pack with just my body language, eye contact and energy.” He points to the “thousands upon thousands of letters” he receives from viewers touting “miracles” of restored relationships and saved dogs. “All I want is what is best for the animal,” Millan says.

Despite the controversy, there is a lot that everyone agrees on. Both sides of the training spectrum teach that a lack of discipline or structure is not conducive to a well-behaved dog. “Dogs need direction and boundaries, just like human relationships,” says Haggerty, the trainer from the School for Dogs in Manhattan, which uses dominance theory. “If dogs don’t know what the boundaries are, they will wreak havoc.”

How a dog owner projects those boundaries is also important. “You have to be calm, you have to be clear, you have to be consistent, and you have to make sure you meet your pet’s needs for other things: exercise, play, social interaction,” says Herron of The Ohio State University.

So what does an owner do when a calm and structured environment still breeds a misfit pup like JonBee? Should it be the leash and hand that redirects the dog, or poultry and patience? Current science favors the chicken flavor. But whichever strategy you choose, everyone agrees that the timing must be precise. It is very difficult for a dog to make an appropriate association and learn from the reprimand or reward otherwise.

Of course, if you take Blumberg’s Harvard class, he'll tell you, “If your timing is lousy using positive reinforcement, the worst thing that happens is you get a fat dog.”

http://www.livescience.com/5846-critics-challenge-dog-whisperer-methods.html

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MessageSujet: Re: C. Millan: avis?   C. Millan: avis? - Page 15 EmptyVen 8 Mai 2015 - 1:44

Citation :
My Contribution to Cesar Millan's New Book
Dr. Ian Dunbar | Thu, 09/16/2010 - 15:05

Cesar Millan’s new book — Cesar’s Rules — features a number of trainers describing a variety of reward-based dog training techniques. The book is both comprehensive and representative with chapters on history of training and learning theory (Bob Bailey), training dogs for TV and film (Mark Harden), off-leash lure/reward training (myself), gentle physical prompting (Martin Deeley), and cancer detection dogs at The Pine Street Clinic. Cesar Millan’s name and fame now showcase reward-based training techniques of other trainers to the dog-owning public. It’s kind of like a vestigial book version of Dog Star Daily’s America’s Dog Trainer.

Kelly, Jamie and I gave it a lot of thought before agreeing to volunteering our time to be interviewed — weighing up the pros and cons of association versus exposure. Obviously, any book with Cesar’s name on it is destined to be a best seller, no matter what the content. Since any content is guaranteed enormous exposure, we thought, why not have reward-based training techniques get the exposure. I was very reassured to find out that my respected colleague and good buddy Bob Bailey was also involved and I finally agreed to be interviewed and filmed after being given full veto power over the manuscript, photos and filming. However, with the exception of the photo (mentioned below), veto-power was unnecessary. In all the times that I have been interviewed and filmed, I have never had my words and actions presented so accurately — almost word for word.

I have always thought, that I can do so much more good for dogs by engaging those who use dog training techniques of which I strongly disapprove, rather than simply preaching to the choir. Having read the book, I am glad that I decided to be involved. I was given free rein to say what I liked and do what I liked — an extremely unusual arrangement when dealing with television production companies. I mentioned over and over that I consider touching a dog to be an earned privilege rather than a right and that training should always be off-leash and hands-off. I have always taught people, to never touch a dog to force him to comply but rather, to touch him afterwards as a reward if that’s what he enjoys. I have always taught people to try and see the dog’s point of view and to be patient and give the dog time when resolving behavior and temperament problems.

I sincerely hope that through this book so many more dog owners will be exposed to reward-based training techniques and specifically that they will get to enjoy the rewards of reward-based training. Namely, that people learn how to proactively teach their dogs what they would like them to do, rather than providing no instruction and then feeling the need to punish their dogs for breaking rules that they didn’t even know existed.

The interview was filmed and hopefully, it will show on TV so that Hugo’s speed and Dune’s reliability can help advertise the easiest, quickest and most enjoyable way to teach off-leash verbal control — lure/reward training. Cesar lure/reward trains his dog Junior using first food (not very effective) but then a tennis ball that instantly transforms the dog into a motivated guy. Then Cesar got to work with Hugo, starting with basic luring by teaching him in Spanish.

I have only two criticisms about the book. First, I don’t like the title because I usually let owners decide on their own rules for their own dog. I consider household and lifestyle rules to be a very personal choice. However, publishers, and not authors, choose book titles and obviously they want to choose a title that will sell the book. Second, there is a really silly choice of photo in the chapter on Hands-Off Dog Training with my hands on Dune’s collar. Duh!?! It looks like I am forcibly restraining Dune from goosing Cesar. I have been assured that this photograph will be replaced after the first printing.

http://www.dogstardaily.com/blogs/my-contribution-cesar-millans-new-book

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MessageSujet: Re: C. Millan: avis?   C. Millan: avis? - Page 15 EmptyVen 8 Mai 2015 - 1:44

Citation :
My Contribution to Cesar Millan's New Book
Dr. Ian Dunbar | Thu, 09/16/2010 - 15:05

Cesar Millan’s new book — Cesar’s Rules — features a number of trainers describing a variety of reward-based dog training techniques. The book is both comprehensive and representative with chapters on history of training and learning theory (Bob Bailey), training dogs for TV and film (Mark Harden), off-leash lure/reward training (myself), gentle physical prompting (Martin Deeley), and cancer detection dogs at The Pine Street Clinic. Cesar Millan’s name and fame now showcase reward-based training techniques of other trainers to the dog-owning public. It’s kind of like a vestigial book version of Dog Star Daily’s America’s Dog Trainer.

Kelly, Jamie and I gave it a lot of thought before agreeing to volunteering our time to be interviewed — weighing up the pros and cons of association versus exposure. Obviously, any book with Cesar’s name on it is destined to be a best seller, no matter what the content. Since any content is guaranteed enormous exposure, we thought, why not have reward-based training techniques get the exposure. I was very reassured to find out that my respected colleague and good buddy Bob Bailey was also involved and I finally agreed to be interviewed and filmed after being given full veto power over the manuscript, photos and filming. However, with the exception of the photo (mentioned below), veto-power was unnecessary. In all the times that I have been interviewed and filmed, I have never had my words and actions presented so accurately — almost word for word.

I have always thought, that I can do so much more good for dogs by engaging those who use dog training techniques of which I strongly disapprove, rather than simply preaching to the choir. Having read the book, I am glad that I decided to be involved. I was given free rein to say what I liked and do what I liked — an extremely unusual arrangement when dealing with television production companies. I mentioned over and over that I consider touching a dog to be an earned privilege rather than a right and that training should always be off-leash and hands-off. I have always taught people, to never touch a dog to force him to comply but rather, to touch him afterwards as a reward if that’s what he enjoys. I have always taught people to try and see the dog’s point of view and to be patient and give the dog time when resolving behavior and temperament problems.

I sincerely hope that through this book so many more dog owners will be exposed to reward-based training techniques and specifically that they will get to enjoy the rewards of reward-based training. Namely, that people learn how to proactively teach their dogs what they would like them to do, rather than providing no instruction and then feeling the need to punish their dogs for breaking rules that they didn’t even know existed.

The interview was filmed and hopefully, it will show on TV so that Hugo’s speed and Dune’s reliability can help advertise the easiest, quickest and most enjoyable way to teach off-leash verbal control — lure/reward training. Cesar lure/reward trains his dog Junior using first food (not very effective) but then a tennis ball that instantly transforms the dog into a motivated guy. Then Cesar got to work with Hugo, starting with basic luring by teaching him in Spanish.

I have only two criticisms about the book. First, I don’t like the title because I usually let owners decide on their own rules for their own dog. I consider household and lifestyle rules to be a very personal choice. However, publishers, and not authors, choose book titles and obviously they want to choose a title that will sell the book. Second, there is a really silly choice of photo in the chapter on Hands-Off Dog Training with my hands on Dune’s collar. Duh!?! It looks like I am forcibly restraining Dune from goosing Cesar. I have been assured that this photograph will be replaced after the first printing.

http://www.dogstardaily.com/blogs/my-contribution-cesar-millans-new-book

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MessageSujet: Re: C. Millan: avis?   C. Millan: avis? - Page 15 EmptyVen 8 Mai 2015 - 8:59

Dis, est ce que tu pourrais resumer e. Francais ce que ca dit stoplé ? Smile
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MessageSujet: Re: C. Millan: avis?   C. Millan: avis? - Page 15 EmptyVen 8 Mai 2015 - 9:43

Punaise je viens juste de me rendre compte que mes initiales, c'est aussi CM !!! Ahhhhhh !! Ces* Mill*, c'est moi !
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MessageSujet: Re: C. Millan: avis?   C. Millan: avis? - Page 15 EmptyVen 8 Mai 2015 - 9:49

Ma contribution au nouveau livre de Cesar Milan.

Le nouveau livre de Cesar Milan - "Les règles de Cesar" - met à contribution de nombreux éducateurs présentant diverses techniques d'entraînement basées sur la récompense. Ce livre est à la fois global et représentatif avec des chapitres sur l'histoire de l'éducation et les théories de l'apprentissage (Bob Bailey), l'entraînement des chiens de TV et de cinéma (Mark Harden), l'entraînement sans laisse utilisant les techniques du leurre et de la récompense (moi-même), l'incitation physique douce (Martin Deeley), et les chiens détecteurs de cancers de la clinique The Pine Street. Le nom et la popularité de Cesar Milan devient maintenant une vitrine pour présenter aux détenteurs de chiens les techniques d'éducateurs basées sur la récompense. C'est en quelque sorte une version atténuée du livre "Dog Star Daily’s America’s Dog Trainer".

Kelly, Jamie et moi-même avons beaucoup réfléchi avant d'accepter d'être interviewés - pesant le pour et le contre de cette association et exposition. Évidemment, n'importe quel livre avec le nom de Cesar Milan dessus est destiné à être un best-seller, peu importe son contenu. Si n'importe quel contenu a la garantie d'avoir une immense publicité, nous avons pensé : pourquoi ne pas mettre en avant les méthodes d'éducation basées sur la récompense. J'étais très rassuré de découvrir que mon respecté collègue et bon ami Bob Bailey était aussi impliqué et j'ai accepté d'être interviewé et filmé après avoir demandé le veto total sur le contenu du manuscrit, des photos et des films. Néanmoins, à l'exception d'une photo (mentionnée plus bas), le veto n'était pas nécessaire. Depuis que je suis filmé et interviewé, je n'ai jamais eu mes propos et actions présentés aussi justement - presque mot pour mot.

[la suite plus tard...]


Dernière édition par Mockinggirl le Ven 8 Mai 2015 - 14:46, édité 1 fois
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MessageSujet: Re: C. Millan: avis?   C. Millan: avis? - Page 15 EmptyVen 8 Mai 2015 - 10:27

En gros maintenant CM (son nom) vendant "tout et n'importe quoi", des positifs s'y sont engouffrés pour profiter de l'exposition médiatique...
J'ai survolé les premiers livres et ça m'a donné des boutons...
Je serai assez folle pour lire le dernier, j'imagine...
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MessageSujet: Re: C. Millan: avis?   C. Millan: avis? - Page 15 EmptyVen 8 Mai 2015 - 13:44

Je te parle plus jaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaamais!!!!!!!! C. Millan: avis? - Page 15 2619555490

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MessageSujet: Re: C. Millan: avis?   C. Millan: avis? - Page 15 EmptyVen 8 Mai 2015 - 13:46

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MessageSujet: Re: C. Millan: avis?   C. Millan: avis? - Page 15 EmptyVen 8 Mai 2015 - 15:24

Ça n'a pas été facile à prendre comme décision. Dunbar y a réfléchit avec sa femme et son fils.

C'est un peu comme l'autre article que j'ai publié sur cet éducateur pro R+ qui explique qu'il ne cherche pas à convaincre ses clients dont certains sont initialement des fans de CM.

Perso, je ne suis pas (plus) capable de prendre du temps pour instruire les utilisateurs d'une éducation coercitive. Je suis très admirative de ceux qui arrivent à le faire (que ce soit Dunbar ou des membres et pros du forum).

C'est une démarche qui demande de savoir prendre du recul, de ne pas vouloir convaincre mais d'essayer de semer des graines le mieux possible en espérant qu'elles germeront chez certains.

Si CM a une grande notoriété, Dunbar est également connu et en tant que promoteur des méthodes positives en éducation canine, son action n'est pas anodine.

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MessageSujet: Re: C. Millan: avis?   C. Millan: avis? - Page 15 EmptyVen 8 Mai 2015 - 16:20

:-))))))
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MessageSujet: Re: C. Millan: avis?   C. Millan: avis? - Page 15 EmptyMar 2 Juin 2015 - 15:18

Cesar Millan, je l'ai découvert il n'y a pas longtemps. A la tv, il y a beaucoup de mise en scène je trouve et parfois il ne comprend pas les codes canins en allant chercher la confrontation. Je pense que cela casse plus le chien qu'autre chose. L'homme en lui même, semble vouloir aider les chiens mais la méthode n'est pas bonne. Je lirai le livre pour me faire une meilleure opinion de cet homme même si je ne suis pas d'accord avec ces idées.

Sur Cesar Millan c'est cette vidéo que je préfère u



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MessageSujet: Re: C. Millan: avis?   C. Millan: avis? - Page 15 EmptyMar 2 Juin 2015 - 15:53

"Je fais une promenade avec la laisse pour établir ma dominance, je fais de grands pas sans cligner des yeux !"
J'étais morte de rire !
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MessageSujet: Re: C. Millan: avis?   C. Millan: avis? - Page 15 EmptyMar 2 Juin 2015 - 16:13

Elle est drôle cette vidéo, c'est clair. "La position de la queue de Daisy indiquait que son visage se trouvait à l'autre bout de son corps" c'est pas mal non plus comme observation.
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MessageSujet: Re: C. Millan: avis?   C. Millan: avis? - Page 15 EmptyMar 2 Juin 2015 - 20:10

Je l'avais déjà vue cette vidéo ... Excellente !
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MessageSujet: Re: C. Millan: avis?   C. Millan: avis? - Page 15 EmptyMar 2 Juin 2015 - 20:30

J'adore sa tronche on dirait vraiment lui ^^
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MessageSujet: Re: C. Millan: avis?   C. Millan: avis? - Page 15 EmptyMar 2 Juin 2015 - 21:03

Comme je ne connaissais pas du tout, j'ai commencé à regarder la vidéo en me disant qu'il allait brutaliser ce pauvre labrador, du coup quand j'ai entendu son accent horrible et le truc de la position de la queue je me suis dit Wtf ! C'est quoi cet idiot !
J'ai mis un moment à comprendre que c'était une parodie Very Happy
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MessageSujet: Re: C. Millan: avis?   C. Millan: avis? - Page 15 EmptyMar 2 Juin 2015 - 21:06

Loumie a écrit:
Comme je ne connaissais pas du tout, j'ai commencé à regarder la vidéo en me disant qu'il allait brutaliser ce pauvre labrador, du coup quand j'ai entendu son accent horrible et le truc de la position de la queue je me suis dit Wtf ! C'est quoi cet idiot  !
J'ai mis un moment à comprendre que c'était une parodie Very Happy

C'est clair que les vidéos du vrai CM sont plus traumatisantes que la parodie. Elle est excellente. C. Millan: avis? - Page 15 1535186497
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